Baptism of the Holy Spirit

[jarrod]

I really need help in understanding the Baptism of/in the Holy Spirit. Has anyone else listened to the lectures posted here:

http://theos.org/media/category/70/

Has anyone had this experience? I mean, I have observed some men in my life that seem to walk in the Spirit at a much great intensity than myself. I believe the lectures really show that it is not about "have" or "have not," but about a gift of the Spirit administered in His own way and in His own timing. It may be foolish to see it any other way than a gift less we be rebuked like Simon the Sorcerer. I think the reality that there may be "something else" really makes sense to me.

If there is something else, it should be evident to us that we need it. Much like that "Law" that was suppose to be a tutor to grace, it is almost as if the presence of the Holy Spirit in our life and the battle of flesh and Spirit should lead us down a path to say, "What I see in the Bible and the power spoken of seems more than what seems to be available to me." That struggle against flesh and Spirit should lead us to fully commit either which way -- all in for the flesh, all in for the Spirit, but to not be "lukewarm" with a foot in both doors.

Total commitment to Christ and His kingdom. It is a complete shift of mind. And, if there is more, I have prayed vehemently alone, and with my wife, but I'm not sure. I feel restless almost until I find out more about it. I really don't know anyone where I live that thinks along those lines.

Hope there is some sense in that...

Jarrod

[TK]

I don't believe it is a gift as much as it is a necessity.

A gift implies that it may not be given; I think the scriptures are clear that baptism of the HS is available to any believer who earnestly seeks it.

TK

[jarrod]

I don't believe it is a gift as much as it is a necessity.

A gift implies that it may not be given; I think the scriptures are clear that baptism of the HS is available to any believer who earnestly seeks it.

TK

TK, I like what you said. I _definitely_ think it is a necessity, but does the fact that it is available to all make it any less of a gift?

Or are you not saying it's not a gift (go double negatives!), just that you view it more as a necessity?

[Bud]

Hi Jarrod,

I believe I was baptized in the Holy Spirit about 14yrs ago during a period of deep repentance. I spoke in tongues (an evidence not the evidence).

My life changed completely. There's much more I could say but this isn't my "testimony" but a reply to you.

I was alone on a camper floor when it happened to me. Normally it seems from scripture that people were baptized in the Holy Spirit following the laying on of hands by Spirit filled men. This is what I would recommend to you. Then believe you will be given the "gift" and waiting confidently.

Grace to you from on high,
Bud

[RICHinCHRIST]

A gift implies that it may not be given; I think the scriptures are clear that baptism of the HS is available to any believer who earnestly seeks it.

I'm not sure your wording is clear enough, brother TK (although I think I'm following your train of thought anyway). A gift can always be given, but can sometimes not be received. Everything we get from God is a gift of undeserved favor (1 Cor 4:7), but Jesus specifically said that the Holy Spirit was a gift to be received by those who ask the Father for it (Luke 11:13). Paul, also spoke of a "gift" that was passed along to Timothy through the laying on of hands (see the scripture references below).

Thank you for your exhortation though. It is always a good reminder that we need to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph 5:18).

Jarrod,

Regarding your question, I have had some pretty intense experiences when I was first baptized in the Spirit. I received the gift through the laying on of hands from a pastor in the Calvary Chapel denomination. It wasn't until months later that I received the gift of tongues (but not everyone has been given that gift, but it doesn't hurt to pray for it). But most of what God has taught me in the few years since those days is to not neglect the gift (1 Tim 4:14), but to continue to stir it up (2 Tim 1:6).

If your curious if you are baptized in the Holy Spirit, ask if you are overcoming sin. I find that when I'm filled with the Holy Spirit, sin does not have power over me. When I find my heart drifting or temptation to be strong (in whichever direction), then I probably need to be re-filled with the Holy Spirit (and after I'm re-filled, I need to be filled again). This, in my opinion, comes through a reliance upon the Holy Spirit that we need to walk in daily. In other words, I wouldn't be too concerned about feeling the "tinglies" of the Spirit, or hoping that your room will shake like it did in the Book of Acts (or whatever manifestation the Spirit may choose), but just wait on God and trust that He will supply you with the Spirit so that you might better serve Him and not serve sin any longer. The strength and grace of God comes through the power of the Holy Spirit, and we obtain that by faith. Just trust the Father like a child, and He will be sure to immerse you in the Spirit of Christ. You may just be looking for a specific experience rather than for the fruit of overcoming sin. But the experience may also come when you're not looking for it (kind of like when the wind blows).

[Homer]

Normally it seems from scripture that people were baptized in the Holy Spirit following the laying on of hands by Spirit filled men. This is what I would recommend to you. Then believe you will be given the "gift" and waiting confidently.

That would seem to fit the definition of a sacrament.

[TK]

Rich wrote:

I'm not sure your wording is clear enough, brother TK (although I think I'm following your train of thought anyway). A gift can always be given, but can sometimes not be received. Everything we get from God is a gift of undeserved favor (1 Cor 4:7), but Jesus specifically said that the Holy Spirit was a gift to be received by those who ask the Father for it (Luke 11:13).

You are right of course. The Baptism of the HS is a gift, just as salvation is a gift. Sometimes when they hear the word "gift" people then think that this "gift" may not be given to them, for whatever reason. But these are gifts that are freely given. So (I believe at least) a person who does not believe they have been baptized by the HS should NOT say, "Well, I have just not been given that gift." Instead, they should be earnestly seeking it.

TK

[Perry]

Rich,

Thanks for your great post!

...I received the gift of tongues (but not everyone has been given that gift, but it doesn't hurt to pray for it).

I haven't been given that gift, and really haven't sought it. I should love to have the gift of prophecy, or of healing, or of teaching. Those are the gifts I pray for. (I don't claim to have any of them). I wonder, in this context, why it's always the gift of tongues that comes up. It seems that many people seek the gift of tongues, and are advised to pray for it. I have often heard people mention they desired the gift of tongues. Rarely, meaning never, have I heard someone wishing they had the gift of prophecy.

[jarrod]

RICH, thanks for this... I like hearing about others experiences so that I could compare with my own.

If you're curious if you are baptized in the Holy Spirit, ask if you are overcoming sin. I find that when I'm filled with the Holy Spirit, sin does not have power over me.

I think a responsible view about the Baptism of the Spirit could be determined by an understanding of God, His character, and what it says in the Bible about a particular subject (<sarcasm>sooooo easy, right?</sarcasm>). With that understanding, however limited, we could compare that with the public displays of that act or the experiences we hear about from first-hand testimonies. "You have to speak in tongues," or, "When slain in the spirit you will fall down shaking uncontrollably," and that becomes a normative thing. That has the appearance of doing things by the letter, and not the Spirit.

We were just discussing the difference between performing acts by the letter or being led by the Spirit in home fellowship last Sunday. Sometimes we don't have Him yet in His fullness individually and sometimes not even in His fullness amidst an entire gathering. This leads to doing things by the letter, I think. By that I mean reading and trying to copy what it says verbatim like me _trying_ to figure out the instructions for putting a bookshelf together for my wife. But when the Spirit is present, He will bring understanding and just as important-- the fruit of the Spirit.

I believe that is how we are to gauge things. "Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine." If we are bearing the fruit of the Spirit then it will be evident. That is something that I don't know can be a artificially replicated. So, if it bears the fruit of the Spirit, it _must_ be the Spirit. I am interested to hear others thoughts on that matter.

Jrod

[jarrod]

Sometimes we don't have Him yet in His fullness individually and sometimes not even in His fullness amidst an entire gathering.

I think that statement is incomplete. I think it's not just that we don't have something of Him, it's that He doesn't have something of us. Only until we sacrifice our self for His desires can we reach a level of intimacy and open communication that _should_ exist between a Father and a child. I think the "balance" is important.

His message has been consistent everywhere I read to the effect of, "Follow me, obey me, and I will be a Father to you. But, beware, because I am also the King. The GCS "Kingdom of God" lectures really do a good job of pointing out this multifaceted relationship. But He is always consistent, never wavering, and Holy. The level of "experience" in relationship to the Lord is a function of how much you are willing to give.



Jesus seems to say here, I have made myself available to you. I will reveal who I am, but there is a reality you are struggling with that needs to be _overcome_. He asks for them to, "answer this," and He will reveal the authority that is His. He is willing to teach all who come to Him and who commit themselves to the truth.

I think that sufficiently replaces my thoughts on the statement in the previous post.