1 John 2:6 states, "Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."
1 John 3:6 leads me to believe that if I sin I don't live in Him.
In light of these standards, how do we stay in Him?
How do we stay in Christ?
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backwoodsman
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Re: How do we stay in Christ?
Robertson says the word means "keeps on sinning," that is, "lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin." It's not a legalistic "If you sin once you're going to hell;" rather it means one who continues in a pattern of sin without repentance.dseusy wrote:1 John 3:6 leads me to believe that if I sin I don't live in Him.
In light of these standards, how do we stay in Him?
Re: How do we stay in Christ?
Backwoodsman wrote:
I believe that Jesus death did take care of our future sins, IF we believe.
A pattern of unrepentent sinning is a "symtom" of an uncoverted person. So I think John is saying that if you keep on sinning w/o repentance, you are likely not IN Christ, at least not yet.
The bigger problem arises when a person who is truly converted has a season of "backsliddenness." Is he still saved during his period of backsliding? After all, Jesus's death covers future sins. If he is not still saved, at what point does he cease to be saved? After sin # 20, or 220?
Or, should the question be "can a truly converted person truly backslide?" I would most strenuously argue "yes," but of course that is just my opinion.
TK
I agree with this, in part.Robertson says the word means "keeps on sinning," that is, "lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin." It's not a legalistic "If you sin once you're going to hell;" rather it means one who continues in a pattern of sin without repentance.
I believe that Jesus death did take care of our future sins, IF we believe.
A pattern of unrepentent sinning is a "symtom" of an uncoverted person. So I think John is saying that if you keep on sinning w/o repentance, you are likely not IN Christ, at least not yet.
The bigger problem arises when a person who is truly converted has a season of "backsliddenness." Is he still saved during his period of backsliding? After all, Jesus's death covers future sins. If he is not still saved, at what point does he cease to be saved? After sin # 20, or 220?
Or, should the question be "can a truly converted person truly backslide?" I would most strenuously argue "yes," but of course that is just my opinion.
TK
Re: How do we stay in Christ?
143.TK wrote: After sin # 20, or 220?
TK
Re: How do we stay in Christ?
Good one, Matt-
Did you pick that because it's a prime number? At least I think it is. I did some quick math, but that can be a dangerous thing.
TK
Did you pick that because it's a prime number? At least I think it is. I did some quick math, but that can be a dangerous thing.
TK
Re: How do we stay in Christ?
Backwoodsman,
There are a couple of things that lead me to believe that there may be more to these verses than the "keep on" or "continue to" interpretations, although I appreciate the hope they offer.
There are many, many Greek words that convey "keep on" or "continue". I think there could be a reason why John stated it the way he did, without using these extra words.
Concerning context, 1 John 3:5 states, "You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin."
If there is no sin in Him and we are in Him- what happens between sinning and repenting?
What does it mean to take away someone's sin? Is there any condition to having our sins taken away after faith in Jesus Christ?
If we add words to verses- is it possible that we could miss something, hide something, or twist something (perhaps purposely stated with simplicity) intended to be spiritually discerned through the Holy Spirit? What if we, instead, allowed it to scare us and move us to seek His righteousness until He revealed an understanding of what is written?
Jesus also commanded for us to "be perfect" as our Heavenly Father is perfect. Could we justifiably change it to "be mostly perfect" or "be as perfect as you can be"?
Additionally, if we are to walk as Jesus walked, did Jesus sin and ask for repentance?
Maybe these high standards were meant to lead us to Christ... in some way we could remain in Him with sin behind us, potentially offering a greater hope and a truer justification.
There are a couple of things that lead me to believe that there may be more to these verses than the "keep on" or "continue to" interpretations, although I appreciate the hope they offer.
There are many, many Greek words that convey "keep on" or "continue". I think there could be a reason why John stated it the way he did, without using these extra words.
Concerning context, 1 John 3:5 states, "You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin."
If there is no sin in Him and we are in Him- what happens between sinning and repenting?
What does it mean to take away someone's sin? Is there any condition to having our sins taken away after faith in Jesus Christ?
If we add words to verses- is it possible that we could miss something, hide something, or twist something (perhaps purposely stated with simplicity) intended to be spiritually discerned through the Holy Spirit? What if we, instead, allowed it to scare us and move us to seek His righteousness until He revealed an understanding of what is written?
Jesus also commanded for us to "be perfect" as our Heavenly Father is perfect. Could we justifiably change it to "be mostly perfect" or "be as perfect as you can be"?
Additionally, if we are to walk as Jesus walked, did Jesus sin and ask for repentance?
Maybe these high standards were meant to lead us to Christ... in some way we could remain in Him with sin behind us, potentially offering a greater hope and a truer justification.
Re: How do we stay in Christ?
I would have guessed it was too, but 11x13=143TK wrote:Good one, Matt-
Did you pick that because it's a prime number? At least I think it is. I did some quick math, but that can be a dangerous thing.
TK
So I'm going to say I picked it b/c 12 represents a complete set (like... of tribes of Israel), so anything less than complete (11) or more than (more than?) complete (13) is incomplete and sinful (and should, of course, be multiplied together). Thus, 143 sins is the cutoff point.
Re: How do we stay in Christ?
TK,
Since Jesus commanded forgiving 70 x 7, I think He would take His own advice and you would be good until sin # 491.
If you were to check the label on a can-o-God's-mercy, perhaps there would be an expiration of "490 sins".
Then again, the nutrition information on a can-o-God's-righteousness would probably state "sin....... 0".
Since Jesus commanded forgiving 70 x 7, I think He would take His own advice and you would be good until sin # 491.
If you were to check the label on a can-o-God's-mercy, perhaps there would be an expiration of "490 sins".
Then again, the nutrition information on a can-o-God's-righteousness would probably state "sin....... 0".
Re: How do we stay in Christ?
Ok, 491 it is. This works for me b/c I've been keeping a record and a lot of my acquaintances are in the mid 400's right now anyways and I'm getting sick of forgiving them.
Re: How do we stay in Christ?
In discussions with my wife I`ve bought up the 70 x 7 thing about 490 times now and I`m on a warning...