"in heaven and on the earth and under the earth"

[verbatim]

Some verses that i think call Jesus the Savior of all men are,

"the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world" 1st John 4.14

"for we have heard for ourselves and know that this really is the Savior of the world" John 4.42

"because we have put our hope in the living God who is the Savior of everyone, especially of those who believe" 1st Tim 4.10




I’m sorry none of the verse you gave doesn’t show that Jesus is the Savior of all men.


Why not?

It blinds you to the fact that Emmanuel was the INNER man, or Christ child of Jesus himself. Christ is the Son of living God Matthew 16:16. Word was a God and not a flesh, God is spirit Jesus is not a spirit. Mary did not give birth to any god. That man is still a man in heaven and resurrected with a spiritual body after his communing with the Father.
No scripture calls Jesus the Word, or God. Only “He” is OUR God, cause God said to worship his beloved son. God cannot die. Jesus son of Mary die.

[steve7150]

No scripture calls Jesus the Word, or God. Only “He” is OUR God, cause God said to worship his beloved son. God cannot die. Jesus son of Mary die.






Sorry Verbatim i really lost you but i want to respond although this is going off on a tangent.

In John 1 , Jesus is called the Word of God & later John says he was made flesh. His is not "a god" because this description in the context of John 1 makes no sense, but
he also is not God Almighty IMHO but as John said "the Word" which i think is like an extension of God.
Jesus "the man" died but not Jesus the Word (Phil 2.7) so as a man he was human in that he slept, got hungry,got tired and he could die.

I really not interested in debating this but i did want to respond a couple of your points.

[verbatim]

Sorry Verbatim i really lost you but i want to respond although this is going off on a tangent.

In John 1 , Jesus is called the Word of God & later John says he was made flesh. His is not "a god" because this description in the context of John 1 makes no sense, but
he also is not God Almighty IMHO but as John said "the Word" which i think is like an extension of God.
Jesus "the man" died but not Jesus the Word (Phil 2.7) so as a man he was human in that he slept, got hungry,got tired and he could die.

I really not interested in debating this but i did want to respond a couple of your points.

Yes, only one thing, there is a fine line in there of true understanding, which only God can reveal. for instance, You cannot find one verse proving that Jesus was called the Mighty God, in his lifetime. So there is something there which has been interjected into interpretation which is not in Scripture.
Also, notice that no Scripture ever calls Jesus Emmanuel. So that leaves that out. No Scripture ever said that Jesus is or was the Word.

[Candlepower]

Verbatim said...

You cannot find one verse proving that Jesus was called the Mighty God, in his lifetime.

It does not matter whether or not Jesus was called “the mighty God” during His lifetime. That title was declared by the great prophet, Isaiah, to apply to Messiah (Is 9:6). Jesus was/is Messiah. Therefore, "Mighty God" applies to Jesus.

Also, notice that no Scripture ever calls Jesus Emmanuel. So that leaves that out.

Isaiah prophetically called the Messiah, Emmanuel (Is 7:14), and an angel called Jesus Emmanuel (Matt 1:23). Jesus was/is the Messiah. Therefore, Jesus was Emmanuel.

No Scripture ever said that Jesus is or was the Word.

The Apostle John clearly identified Jesus as “The Word” Who dwelt for a while in the flesh (John 1:1, 14).

It seems to me that it takes great mental effort to deny these facts.

[Paidion]

I’m sorry none of the verse you gave doesn’t show that Jesus is the Savior of all men.

...for to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (I Tim 4:10 RSV)

The above verse states clearly that the Living God is the Savior of all men. I don't know how it could be stated any plainer.

[verbatim]

Verbatim said...

You cannot find one verse proving that Jesus was called the Mighty God, in his lifetime.

It does not matter whether or not Jesus was called “the mighty God” during His lifetime. That title was declared by the great prophet, Isaiah, to apply to Messiah (Is 9:6). Jesus was/is Messiah. Therefore, "Mighty God" applies to Jesus.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall
be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The
everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

While the passages you give was true, Isaiah did not specifically or directly point this to Jesus but to the “Word” which would incarnate to flesh, erstwhile Christ meaning anointed one, Messiah “the Savior”. besides Jesus aren’t call “Everlasting Father”.

Also, notice that no Scripture ever calls Jesus Emmanuel. So that leaves that out.

Isaiah prophetically called the Messiah, Emmanuel (Is 7:14), and an angel called Jesus Emmanuel (Matt 1:23). Jesus was/is the Messiah. Therefore, Jesus was Emmanuel.
No, Neither Isaiah (Isa 7:14) or the angel (matt 1:23) did not categorically called Jesus was Emmanuel.
You interjected ‘Jesus was Emmanuel’ which was not in Scripture. “and they shall call his name
Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.” thus pertain to Christ ’the Word’.

No Scripture ever said that Jesus is or was the Word.

The Apostle John clearly identified Jesus as “The Word” Who dwelt for a while in the flesh (John 1:1, 14).

It seems to me that it takes great mental effort to deny these facts.

Great mental effort or prudence cannot unfold the mystery of God but through intervention of the Holy Spirit.
So,while the Word pre exist before creation, it did not refer to Jesus who exist only when he was
born of Mary and was anointed after his baptism or after being born again by the Word of God.

When did Jesus become Christ or Messiah ‘the Anointed One’?
Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I
begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and,
lo,the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The meaning is: that the "Word" had an existence before the world was created. This is not spoken of the man Jesus, but of that which "became" a man, or was incarnate, John 1:14. Whatever is meant by the term "Word," it is clear that it had an existence before "creation." It is not, then, a "creature" or created being, and must be, therefore, uncreated and eternal.

[verbatim]

Paidion wrote:

...for to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (I Tim 4:10 RSV)

The above verse states clearly that the Living God is the Savior of all men. I don't know how it could be stated any plainer.;

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
The verse above describe Chriat as the Son of the living God so, it is needless to say that God is the Savior of all men.
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

[Candlepower]

Hello Verbatim,

I'm having difficulty understanding who you believe Jesus was and is. Please tell me your thoughts about these verses, especially the highlighted words:

Colossians 2:8-10

"Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power."

Candlepower

[verbatim]

Hello Verbatim,

I'm having difficulty understanding who you believe Jesus was and is. Please tell me your thoughts about these verses, especially the highlighted words:

In reading of Scripture the following verses are my guideline which will separate spiritual from physical. Christ is Spirit, Jesus is literal man.
Christ is the Word John1:1, the light (life) John1:4, which incarnated and become flesh and dwelt in every man John 1:14, John1:9, Acts 17:28,1 Corinthians 3:16 Son of living God Matthew 16:16 and have been again from above Heb1:5 .and many more…
Jesus is a man born of Mary. Conceived of a woman Matt1:23, with flesh and bone Luke 24:39,
John19:34 when Jesus was pierce with a spear, blood and water gushed from his side.( spirit has no blood) Jesus die, God never will die.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Colossians 2:8-10

"Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Mark 7:6-10 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power."

Christ is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For it pleased the Father
that in him should all fullness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by
him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things
in heaven. Col1:15, 19-20

[steve7150]

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
The verse above describe Chriat as the Son of the living God so, it is needless to say that God is the Savior of all men.
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.










You may think it's needless to say God is the Savior of all men but Paul didn't think it was needless since he said exactly those very words in 1st Tim 4.10.