How do non-trinitarians explain this verse:
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands
it appears to be speaking of the Son, yet the original quote was addressed to the LORD.
Hebrews 1:10
Re: Hebrews 1:10
Here is one explanation that is not very common. The names and pronouns are color-coded to show who they identify. Red is Christ; Blue is God.
7 Of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire."
8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."
10 And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end."
13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"?
Look first at verse 7 - "of the angels he says, "He makes his angels..." The "He" and "his" is God, not the angels. It is God speaking of Himself in relationship to the angels.
Verse 8 - "of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever..." As in verse 7, God speaks of Himself and His relationship to the Son, who is the righteous scepter.
Verse 9 goes on speaking of the righteous scepter (His Son), how he loved righteousness and hated wickedness, and that is why God has anointed him (anointed = Christ) with the oil of joy.
For reference, here is another verse that speaks of the coming Messiah as a scepter:
Numbers 24:17 NASB
(17) "I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near; A star shall come forth from Jacob, A scepter shall rise from Israel, And shall crush through the forehead of Moab, And tear down all the sons of Sheth.
7 Of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire."
8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."
10 And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end."
13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"?
Look first at verse 7 - "of the angels he says, "He makes his angels..." The "He" and "his" is God, not the angels. It is God speaking of Himself in relationship to the angels.
Verse 8 - "of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever..." As in verse 7, God speaks of Himself and His relationship to the Son, who is the righteous scepter.
Verse 9 goes on speaking of the righteous scepter (His Son), how he loved righteousness and hated wickedness, and that is why God has anointed him (anointed = Christ) with the oil of joy.
For reference, here is another verse that speaks of the coming Messiah as a scepter:
Numbers 24:17 NASB
(17) "I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near; A star shall come forth from Jacob, A scepter shall rise from Israel, And shall crush through the forehead of Moab, And tear down all the sons of Sheth.
Re: Hebrews 1:10
I did come across this view, and the more I think about it the more I am inclined towards it. Though I do hold that Christ is fully divine, God from God etc, the language really does seem to be pointing to the Father, who made all things through or by the Word/Son.
Re: Hebrews 1:10
Jesus made two seperate comments about who created man and creationdean198 wrote:I did come across this view, and the more I think about it the more I am inclined towards it. Though I do hold that Christ is fully divine, God from God etc, the language really does seem to be pointing to the Father, who made all things through or by the Word/Son.
Mat 19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female,
Mar 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be.
It appears He does not include Himself in this process.
Peace,
Paul
Re: Hebrews 1:10
The second century writers associated Proverbs 8:22-31 with the begetting of the Son. Though it speaks of "wisdom", they believed that the Son was the personification of wisdom.
Yahweh created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth. When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth; before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world. When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, then I was beside him, like a master workman; and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always, rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the sons of men.
The apostle John wrote in his gospel:
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made. John 1:3
So the Father and Son had an intimate relationship from the beginning. The Father created all things through the Son. The Son was at his side as a master workman. Even then, the Son did His Father's bidding, and did nothing without the Father. And so it was also after the Son was born as a human being.
The Father and the Son share the name "Yahweh". Thus in Genesis 19:24, we read of two Yahwehs in a single verse, one acting on the earth with the power and authority of the other one acting from heaven:
Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven.
So, since the Father and the Son share the name Yahweh, Abraham addressed the appearance of the Son as "Yahweh". Thus it is quite appropriate both in Hebrews 1:10 and the original quote that Yahweh is addressed. It was addressed to Yahweh the Son, through whom all things were created, the one who was the master workman at the side of Yahweh the Father, the Great Creator.
Yahweh created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth. When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth; before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world. When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, then I was beside him, like a master workman; and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always, rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the sons of men.
The apostle John wrote in his gospel:
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made. John 1:3
So the Father and Son had an intimate relationship from the beginning. The Father created all things through the Son. The Son was at his side as a master workman. Even then, the Son did His Father's bidding, and did nothing without the Father. And so it was also after the Son was born as a human being.
The Father and the Son share the name "Yahweh". Thus in Genesis 19:24, we read of two Yahwehs in a single verse, one acting on the earth with the power and authority of the other one acting from heaven:
Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven.
So, since the Father and the Son share the name Yahweh, Abraham addressed the appearance of the Son as "Yahweh". Thus it is quite appropriate both in Hebrews 1:10 and the original quote that Yahweh is addressed. It was addressed to Yahweh the Son, through whom all things were created, the one who was the master workman at the side of Yahweh the Father, the Great Creator.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Hebrews 1:10
I agree with you with regards to Proverbs 8, but I can't agree that the Son is YHWH, but the Angel of YHWH, and is referred to as YHWH only as the messenger of YHWH. And as pointed out by the other poster, it is the Father to whom is attributed the creation, as also he was amongst the early Christians: we believe in one God, the Father, maker of heaven and earth. Also, we read that YHWH (the Father) said to my lord (Jesus), sit at my right hand etc.Paidion wrote: The Father and the Son share the name "Yahweh". Thus in Genesis 19:24, we read of two Yahwehs in a single verse, one acting on the earth with the power and authority of the other one acting from heaven:
Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven.
So, since the Father and the Son share the name Yahweh, Abraham addressed the appearance of the Son as "Yahweh". Thus it is quite appropriate both in Hebrews 1:10 and the original quote that Yahweh is addressed. It was addressed to Yahweh the Son, through whom all things were created, the one who was the master workman at the side of Yahweh the Father, the Great Creator.