Jesus is God

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:53 pm

It's interesting that no one here is taking on Dr. Brown's point in Isaiah 44:24, where God says that He created everything by Himself, that He alone created all things - yet the New Testament tells us clearly that all things were created by Jesus, through Jesus, and for Jesus. Colossians 1:16 How do you explain this?

commonsense
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by commonsense » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:45 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:05 am
Which religious organization are you a member of?
None.
dwight92070 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:45 pm

Once again, a misrepresentation of the Trinity doctrine. There is only one God, in three persons.


Dwight, I'm not a Trinitarian.

If God dwells in Bob, John, Sam, and Henry then God is in more than three persons.


dwight92070 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:45 pm
We are not part of the Godhead.
Yes, we are.
" Ye are gods"

If you obey God's commands, you are a son of God(led by the Spirit).
If you imitate Christ then you are like Jesus-made in the image of God. In which case, you are co-heirs with Christ, not lesser but equal. Likewise you inherit all things that are God's including the power and authority of His Holy Spirit.

"The Lord your God will make you the head and not the tail, placing you above and not beneath, if you obey the command of the Lord your God."
dwight92070 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:53 pm
yet the New Testament tells us clearly that all things were created by Jesus, through Jesus, and for Jesus. Colossians 1:16 How do you explain this?
Did Jesus create the earth for Himself?
Did Jesus create a tree for Himself?
Did Jesus create Israel?
Did Jesus create a home for your spouse and kids for Himself?
Did Jesus create a temple to the sun god for Himself?
I can go on and on. The point being, maybe your interpretation is off.

commonsense
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by commonsense » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:24 pm

Dwight, you keep insisting that Jesus is God. It seems that you want to stuff God in a box. God is so much more. Where does the mind of a scientist or a mathematician come from? Is God not an artist? Did Mozart's musical gifts come from God or something else? Does God reveal Himself in other people? I think so.

dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:35 am

commonsense wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:45 pm
dwight92070 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:05 am
Which religious organization are you a member of?
None.
dwight92070 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:45 pm

Once again, a misrepresentation of the Trinity doctrine. There is only one God, in three persons.


Dwight, I'm not a Trinitarian.

If God dwells in Bob, John, Sam, and Henry then God is in more than three persons.

Dwight - You're using a different meaning of the word "in" and a different meaning of the word "person". God can be DWELLING in millions of persons by His Holy Spirit (if they invite Him in), but that does not make them God. The Trinity doctrine says that the very essence of His being consists of 3 "persons", not three humans, but 3 beings that have personalities.

Dwight - I shouldn't have to explain the Trinity doctrine to you. I think you know exactly what we mean, but for some reason, you are playing games with the words to change the overall meaning. Any dictionary will give you the same definition that I have.

We are not part of the Godhead.


Yes, we are.
" Ye are gods"

Dwight - The context of Psalm 82:6 is that the rulers of Israel and judges of Israel were acting on behalf of God in their ruling and judging, not that they were God. In fact, God says in verse 7 that they would die like men, so they weren't actually God. Once again, I think you know that, but you're toying with me.



If you obey God's commands, you are a son of God(led by the Spirit).
If you imitate Christ then you are like Jesus-made in the image of God. In which case, you are co-heirs with Christ, not lesser but equal.

Dwight - Saying that we are EQUAL to Christ is NOT obeying His commands or being led by His Spirit. That is arrogant heresy. Luke 6:40 We are to be LIKE Him, but we are NEVER EQUAL to Him, either in this life or the next.

"The Lord your God will make you the head and not the tail, placing you above and not beneath, if you obey the command of the Lord your God."

Dwight - This was a promise made to Israel, (not meant for believers today) if they met the condition of staying faithful to Him. They didn't and He didn't.
dwight92070 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:53 pm
yet the New Testament tells us clearly that all things were created by Jesus, through Jesus, and for Jesus. Colossians 1:16 How do you explain this?
Did Jesus create the earth for Himself? Yes.
Did Jesus create a tree for Himself? Yes
Did Jesus create Israel? Yes
Did Jesus create a home for your spouse and kids for Himself? He created the physical elements that are in the building materials for Himself.
Did Jesus create a temple to the sun god for Himself? Again, He created the elements, but humans fashioned it into an idolatrous temple, which He gave them the freedom to do.
I can go on and on. The point being, maybe your interpretation is off.
Dwight - Maybe your attitude is off. You seem to be obsessed with "God's commandments", but your attitude is not really obeying Him, but rather challenging and almost mocking those who do. You need to "repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you." Acts 8:22

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Paidion
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by Paidion » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:30 pm

The apostle Paul made it clear that there is one God, and that that one God ain't Jesus (or "the trinity"):

For there is one God, AND there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus... (1Timothy 2:5 ESV)

Jesus is not God; He is the only-begotten Son of God, begotten before all ages.
God's first act was the begetting of His Son.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:46 pm

Paidion wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:30 pm
The apostle Paul made it clear that there is one God, and that that one God ain't Jesus (or "the trinity"):

For there is one God, AND there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus... (1Timothy 2:5 ESV)

Dwight - Paidon, that is a good verse and I believe it. But there's more to it than that - scores of other verses reveal that to us and we have to take them all together. When we do that, we see that Jesus is God. The Father calls Him God, Isaiah called HIm the Mighty God and the Everlasting Father, Paul calls Him God, Peter calls Him God, John the apostle calls Him God, Thomas calls Him God, the author of Hebrews calls Him God, Jesus Himself claims to be God. Who are you or who is anybody to say that He is not God?

He is the only-begotten Son of God,

Dwight - True

begotten before all ages.
God's first act was the begetting of His Son

Dwight - No scripture affirms this - this is mere speculation.

commonsense
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by commonsense » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:27 am

dwight92070 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:35 am
Dwight - I shouldn't have to explain the Trinity doctrine to you. I think you know exactly what we mean, but for some reason, you are playing games with the words to change the overall meaning. Any dictionary will give you the same definition that I have.
Dwight,It's the Trinitarian doctrine that changes the meaning of what is being said in the New Testament to make it fit their own narrative.
dwight92070 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:35 am

Dwight - The context of Psalm 82:6 is that the rulers of Israel and judges of Israel were acting on behalf of God in their ruling and judging, not that they were God. In fact, God says in verse 7 that they would die like men, so they weren't actually God. Once again, I think you know that, but you're toying with me.
And this is why Israel eventually fell, and why Jesus was raising up a new people of God. People with divine qualities who obey God's commands and act on his behalf.
dwight92070 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:35 am

Dwight - Saying that we are EQUAL to Christ is NOT obeying His commands or being led by His Spirit. That is arrogant heresy. Luke 6:40 We are to be LIKE Him, but we are NEVER EQUAL to Him, either in this life or the next.
If Jesus is God, He would not be an heir. He received the inheritance because of His obedience to God, the same way we receive the inheritance. "And if children, the heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ. Fellow means a person in the same position-equal.
dwight92070 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:35 am
Dwight - This was a promise made to Israel, (not meant for believers today)
Yes, it is meant for believers today.
dwight92070 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:35 am
Did Jesus create the earth for Himself? Yes.
Did Jesus create a tree for Himself? Yes
Did Jesus create Israel? Yes
Did Jesus create a home for your spouse and kids for Himself? He created the physical elements that are in the building materials for Himself.
Did Jesus create a temple to the sun god for Himself? Again, He created the elements, but humans fashioned it into an idolatrous temple, which He gave them the freedom to do.
Okay then, we are all entitled to our own beliefs. And no, I wasn't mocking you. I was asking these questions, so that you might seriously think about them and see if they make sense according to your interpretation.

If the whole world cannot even contain God how does God fit into one man?

dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:25 am

commonsense wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:27 am



Okay then, we are all entitled to our own beliefs. And no, I wasn't mocking you. I was asking these questions, so that you might seriously think about them and see if they make sense according to your interpretation.

If the whole world cannot even contain God how does God fit into one man?
Dwight - I have serioously considered all that you said and much more. When I was born again in 1970, that was my first question. What is the Trinity and where do we find that in the Bible? I did go through a short period of time - about 1 year, where I was almost persuaded that Jesus was not God, but that was in 1972, when I was a young believer, and I had not yet seen the multitude of verses that say otherwise.

Dwight - Colossians 2:2 - ...in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Dwight - Does the Trinity make sense? No, not to our finite minds. How can God fit into one man? Colossians 2:9 - For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.

Someone has well said that we cannot comprehend the Trinity, but we can apprehend it - that is, we are made aware of it, we perceive it by the many scriptures that speak of it.

dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:43 am

Paidion wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:30 pm
The apostle Paul made it clear that there is one God, and that that one God ain't Jesus (or "the trinity"):

For there is one God, AND there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus... (1Timothy 2:5 ESV)

Jesus is not God; He is the only-begotten Son of God, begotten before all ages.
God's first act was the begetting of His Son.
Dwight - Isaiah 59:15-16 "...And (the Lord) saw that there was NO MAN, and was astonished that there was NO ONE to intercede; Then HIS OWN ARM brought salvation to Him and HIS righteousness upheld Him."

Dwight - God Himself was the mediator between Himself and men, since no human was qualified. And we know that Jesus was not JUST A MAN. He was God in the flesh.

Dwight - 2 Corinthians 5:19 " ... God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself."

Dwight - It's clear that Jesus is God. The scriptures testify to that fact over and over.

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Paidion
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by Paidion » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:22 pm

Dwight wrote:God Himself was the mediator between Himself and men, since no human was qualified. And we know that Jesus was not JUST A MAN. He was God in the flesh.
Read it again, Dwight, and this time accept it as true:

For there is one God, AND there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus... (1Timothy 2:5 ESV)


It doesn't state that God Himself is the mediator. It simply says there is one God. Who is that one God? It is the heavenly Father.

Then it says AND there is one mediator between God and men. Who is that one mediator? It states that it is the man Christ Jesus.
It doesn't as much as hint that it God the Father Himself. Nor does it hint that the one mediator, the man Christ Jesus, is God in any sense.
But throughout the New Testament, it is affirmed that Jesus is the SON of God. He is not the son of himself; he is the son of God the Father.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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