How Many Gods Are There?

User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: How Many Gods Are There?

Post by darinhouston » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:34 pm

Homer wrote:Paidion,

You wrote:
All He was saying is that He existed prior to Abraham. The Jews didn't wish to stone Him for blasphemy. They wished to stone Him for claiming that He lived prior to Abraham. Look at the two verses just prior:
That won't wash. Why would they consider it blasphemous for Him to have simply meant he lived prior to Abraham? If that was all He claimed they would have likely dismissed Him as a nut and walked away in derision.
Consider watching these:


John 10:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33uUTmSsPdc

and

John 8:58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlTCk2rYl34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYhmDSTYjGI

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 4798
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: How Many Gods Are There?

Post by Paidion » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:28 pm

(
Darin, you wrote:and also that John 10:33 should be translated "a god" as it is in Jesus' response to them)
THANKS DARIN! That had never occurred to me before! I am sure you are right about that.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 23 years old. I am now 81.

User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: How Many Gods Are There?

Post by darinhouston » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:05 pm

Paidion wrote:(
Darin, you wrote:and also that John 10:33 should be translated "a god" as it is in Jesus' response to them)
THANKS DARIN! That had never occurred to me before! I am sure you are right about that.
Haha


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

User avatar
Homer
Posts: 2549
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: How Many Gods Are There?

Post by Homer » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:50 am

You guys are making my point - they were going to stone Him because they understood the implications of His words.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 4798
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: How Many Gods Are There?

Post by Paidion » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:17 pm

You guys are making my point - they were going to stone Him because they understood the implications of His words.
I'm not sure what your point was. But it was an eye opener to me to realize that on the occasion in John 10:33 the Jews were saying that they would stone Jesus for "making yourself a god" rather than "making yourself God." Jesus' reply clearly shows this.

Because I had always assumed the translations were correct by rendering it "making yourself God," I could never before understand why Jesus would respond with, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came —  and Scripture cannot be broken — do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"

However, since they actually said, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself a god," Jesus' response makes perfect sense.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 23 years old. I am now 81.

User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: How Many Gods Are There?

Post by darinhouston » Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:52 pm

Paidion wrote:
You guys are making my point - they were going to stone Him because they understood the implications of His words.
I'm not sure what your point was. But it was an eye opener to me to realize that on the occasion in John 10:33 the Jews were saying that they would stone Jesus for "making yourself a god" rather than "making yourself God." Jesus' reply clearly shows this.

Because I had always assumed the translations were correct by rendering it "making yourself God," I could never before understand why Jesus would respond with, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came —  and Scripture cannot be broken — do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"

However, since they actually said, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself a god," Jesus' response makes perfect sense.
And here I thought you were just teasing me.

User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: How Many Gods Are There?

Post by darinhouston » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:35 pm

I’m curious if anyone has watched the videos and what they think about them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Homer
Posts: 2549
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: How Many Gods Are There?

Post by Homer » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:50 pm

Quote from "Brother Kel":
I also have not been able to find any valid reason to believe Jesus was a pre-existent divine being, or person, who descended into the womb of Mary. On the other hand, I have found many factual reasons to believe that the Father of Jesus, the Father only, is the Creator, the One God of Israel, the God of Jesus and his disciples
.

Darin, Do you believe this guy? Unless I misunderstand Him Jesus was only an "idea" prior to being conceived in the virgin Mary, and Jesus is just a man. There are so many scriptures that contradict what he teaches that it boggles the mind.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 4798
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: How Many Gods Are There?

Post by Paidion » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:36 pm

Darin wrote:I’m curious if anyone has watched the videos and what they think about them.
I watched the first one, and was impressed. He talks like a simple person, and yet with great intensity.

However, like Homer, I think it a huge mistake to deny the pre-existence of the Son of God. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I am."
The second-century Christians all taught that God had begotten His Son before all ages, the first of God's acts.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 23 years old. I am now 81.

User avatar
Homer
Posts: 2549
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: How Many Gods Are There?

Post by Homer » Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:57 pm

Paidion,

You wrote:
However, since they actually said, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself a god," Jesus' response makes perfect sense.
Well, well. Since there is no indefinate article in the Greek we assume that we should supply an "a" before God in our translations? How do these verses work where there is no article before God, and right there in the controversial John 1?

John 1:6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6. There came a man sent from (a) God, whose name was John.

John 1:12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of (a) God, even to those who believe in His name,

John 1:13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
13. who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of (a) God.

Seems to me context, along with other scriptures, should determine whether an English translation should supply an indefinite article where there is none in the Greek.

Post Reply

Return to “The Trinity”