Rev 12:11

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Mitzi
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Rev 12:11

Post by Mitzi » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:17 am

Rev: 12: 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


Is the word of our testimony our confession of faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour? Or is it something else?

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robbyyoung
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Re: Rev 12:11

Post by robbyyoung » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:14 am

Mitzi wrote:Rev: 12: 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


Is the word of our testimony our confession of faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour? Or is it something else?
Hi Mitzi,

Since Revelation describes events leading to a close of an age, vs.11 is specific to a type of testimony given in the "Olivet Discourse" as the Old Covenant judgments upon Israel was coming to full fruition. For example note what was written in Mark 13:9-11, also Acts 7:54-60 (Stephen killed) and Acts 12:1-2 (James brother of John was killed in AD 44).

Now generally speaking, outside the context of The Revelation, the word of our testimony is The Word of God itself as we have it today. There is no new inspired text or prophecy to be uttered as a witness against any person, place or thing. Therefore our confession of faith is just one of many testimonies in the established Word of God to be given.

Happy Thanksgiving!

steve7150
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Re: Rev 12:11

Post by steve7150 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:38 am

Rev: 12: 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


Is the word of our testimony our confession of faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour? Or is it something else?







Hi Mitzi,
I have the Historicist view of Revelation so i think it covers the church age, making it a real revelation not a repetition of things already clearly stated in the gospels.
So i think there were different beasts at different times and at that time i believe the beast was the Papacy which tried to in effect take the place of Christ.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your interpretation as that confession and belief did overcome the beast.

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willowtree
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Re: Rev 12:11

Post by willowtree » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:22 pm

Mitzi wrote:Rev: 12: 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


Is the word of our testimony our confession of faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour? Or is it something else?
The word of our testimony is indeed our confession of faith in Christ. But rather than ask if it something else, I would venture that it is something more.

Of all the passages in the Revelation, this one, to me, could be the most important.

The Revelation reveals more than many other NT books that there is a great spiritual conflict in play between the forces of righteousness and the forces of evil. Ground zero lies in the heart and affections of mankind. The battle is fierce and the stakes are high. The side of evil is popular, tempting, and appears to be in the majority. The side of righteousness is scorned upon, demanding of diligent discipleship and commitment, and 'few there be that find it'.

The battle ground centres on the hearts and minds of sinful mankind and their acceptance of salvation through Christ, or their rejection of it.

The word of their testimony is much more than the affirmation of their own spiritual position, it becomes also a damning testimony against the forces of evil. Those who accept Christ, and hold on to it in the face of severe persecution, to the point of 'loving not their lives unto death' have, by reason of their martyrdom, robbed Satan of any further opportunity to win them back to his own side. Their death means that he has lost the battle in their lives, and at his own hand no less. The believers have overcome!

The success of the whole conflict outlined in the Revelation, to a large extent, is determined by the testimony of the believers.

Throughout Revelation, the attention of John is drawn by his guide to this same group of people in several places. In ch 6:9 they are the subject of the fifth seal. In ch 7:9-14 they are a very noisy crowd and exceedingly many, participating in the worship of God. In ch 19 they return to earth with Christ to re-unite with the believers who are alive at his second coming and with the dead in Christ who were not martyred.

In chapter 12, as quoted, there is a beautiful harmony of the saving work of Christ (the blood of the Lamb), the extent of the believers' commitment (loved their lives not unto death) and the solid testimony of their faith (the word of their testimony).

Regards, Graeme
If you find yourself between a rock and a hard place, always head for the rock. Ps 62..

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Paidion
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Another Interpretation

Post by Paidion » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:46 pm

Here is a quote from the context of Rev 12:11 from the English Standard Version.

10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.
11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.
12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
13 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.
14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.
15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood.
16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth.
17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea. (Rev 12:10-17 ESV)


I offer a futurist interpretation. In his vision, John sees the culmination of the kingdom of God (which was in its infant stage when Jesus taught his disciples). The woman John sees represents the church which Christ has built. The male child to which she gives birth represents the sons of God for which the whole creation is longing
(Rom 8:19-25), and for which we ourselves eagerly await for our placing as sons, the redemption of our bodies (vs 23) In that day "the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the glorious freedom of the sons of God (vs 21). In that day, Satan will try to destroy that first fruits company but shall fail. The sons of God will conquer him. (Rev 12:11, the verse in question).
Paidion

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Jepne
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Re: Rev 12:11

Post by Jepne » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:54 pm

Is the word of our testimony our confession of faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour? Or is it something else?
I sure appreciate what others have written, and here is my 'take'.

It is ''by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony" - both things work here. We confess faith, give him our lives, and by the blood of the Lamb we are enabled to walk as his disciples. Our martyrdom, or overcoming in tribulation, is the proof, the seal of our discipleship.

So, we confess our faith and then we get to prove it, sooner or later.
"Anything you think you know about God that you can't find in the person of Jesus, you have reason to question.” - anonymous

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