Page 1 of 1
ESV error?
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 1:50 am
by jaydam
Can somebody with better language skills than me, give me input?
In the ESV, Galatians 4:9 says:
9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
I was curious what word was used for "world," but found that the word is not even there! In fact, "principles of the world" does not seem to be present in the Greek.
It seems it should read, "...weak and worthless elements, whose slaves..."
I was a little shocked at this. Am I mistaken at this error?
It seems it is trying to get verse 9 to match verse 3 where the word kosmos is used, but it still seems a serious addition of words for a supposed close to literal translation.
Re: ESV error?
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 9:45 am
by mattrose
You are correct that there is no greek behind 'principles of the world'
I also think you are correct to guess that they added those words b/c of v. 3
Part of it has to do, of course, with how to best translate STOICHEIA. Even in v. 3 they've translated it 'elementary' and added 'principles.' It seems there translation of STOICHEIA is simply 'elementary principles' and they just added the 'of the world' to v. 9 to even it up with v. 3.
Re: ESV error?
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 9:47 am
by mattrose
By the way, I likely don't have 'better language skills' than you, but I do have the English-Greek reverse interlinear NT (which uses the ESV) which provided the detail needed to answer your question.
Re: ESV error?
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 10:58 am
by jriccitelli
Ha! My NASB did not have world in verse 4:9, I am also glad they used worthless rather than beggarly (that word has made me scramble for a dictionary more than once). I did a lot of debating with Mormons and I usually found it saved a lot of time (and mistakes) if I had a word for word translation handy, like the NASB (although I used the KJV when quoting a verse). I don’t blame translators for transporting the world concept from verse 4:3 to 4:9 as long as readers 'know' they have an amplification of the text.
I can't think of any critical verse where the NASB has let me down.
Re: ESV error?
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:23 pm
by jaydam
Thank Matt. I have the tools, but I like to double-check what I believe I see with people who have handled the Bible much more than myself. Especially when it seems like such a blatant issue in this case.
As for the NASB, that and the NRSV are the ones I've used the most in the past. However, I just purchased an ESV Notetaker's Bible because of how well it was setup for writing in it, so I have been using it for about a month.
It is unfortunate, but it seems for binding options the ESV blows everything else away. Must be a sign of the marketing engine behind it.
Re: ESV error?
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:57 pm
by backwoodsman
It doesn't surprise me. I use the ESV a little because I have it on computer; even with my very limited use I've run into a couple other places where they added something to make it fit a particular doctrine, instead of making an accurate translation. For that reason I'm starting to like it a bit less than I used to.
Re: ESV error?
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 8:10 pm
by Paidion
JR wrote:I did a lot of debating with Mormons and I usually found it saved a lot of time (and mistakes) if I had a word for word translation handy, like the NASB
There is no such thing as a "word for word translation" since Greek doesn't work that way (nor any other language for that matter).
I can't think of any critical verse where the NASB has let me down.
It has let you down in this very verse. It has rendered "στοιχεια" (stoicheia) as "things". If Paul had meant "things" he would have omitted the noun "στοιχεια" altogether. Any good Greek lexicon will tell you that this word means "elements" or "rudiments" or "primary principles" or "elementary principles".