Hebrews 12 might have something to add here:
"...let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."
Joy in Suffering?
Re: Joy in Suffering?
Steve G wrote:
I was wondering how you would respond to this statement?
Thanks,
TK
I just heard someone say that God cannot give someone cancer because cancer is not God's to give.nothing can happen to me unless God at least allows it (since there is nothing He cannot prevent, except those things which His own nature compels Him to permit).
I was wondering how you would respond to this statement?
Thanks,
TK
Re: Joy in Suffering?
I am not sure whether cancer is God's to give or not. Blindness, deafness, lameness, and other "thorns in the flesh" seem to be His to give (Gen.32:25/ Ex.4:11/ John 9:1-3/ 2 Cor.12:7-10). But cancer? I don't know. Why is it considered differently from other negative physical conditions?
But even allowing the validity of the statement (for the sake of argument), is it not possible for God to prevent one from having cancer, or can He not cure it? Yet, He often does not choose to exercise these options. So, even if someone else (let's say, Satan) is the one who is the "giver" of cancer, does not the God who can, but doesn't, prevent or heal it have some complicity in the matter?
If we say, "God always wants to cure cancer; it is our faith that is deficient," then we are committing the atrocity of placing blame on the sick person (even, in many cases, a very faith-filled sick person) for his/her own condition, for no better reason than simply to support our preferred doctrinal position. I am not willing to do this. I am willing to let the whole of scripture speak to the question.
But even allowing the validity of the statement (for the sake of argument), is it not possible for God to prevent one from having cancer, or can He not cure it? Yet, He often does not choose to exercise these options. So, even if someone else (let's say, Satan) is the one who is the "giver" of cancer, does not the God who can, but doesn't, prevent or heal it have some complicity in the matter?
If we say, "God always wants to cure cancer; it is our faith that is deficient," then we are committing the atrocity of placing blame on the sick person (even, in many cases, a very faith-filled sick person) for his/her own condition, for no better reason than simply to support our preferred doctrinal position. I am not willing to do this. I am willing to let the whole of scripture speak to the question.
Re: Joy in Suffering?
I don't necessarily disagree with you Steve- I was just curious about your response. I had a pretty good idea from previous postings so I appreciate you addressing this again.
TK
TK
Re: Joy in Suffering?
Hi TK,TK wrote:I just heard someone say that God cannot give someone cancer because cancer is not God's to give.
Do you know what the reasoning behind this statement was? I just don't get it. If God could smite Uzziah with leprosy, why should be be less able to use cancer if he so chose?
(Not suggesting that the God does either as a general rule, just not sure what the reasoning here is.)
Re: Joy in Suffering?
Hi TK,
Do you know what the reasoning behind this statement was? I just don't get it. If God could smite Uzziah with leprosy, why should be be less able to use cancer if he so chose?
(Not suggesting that the God does either as a general rule, just not sure what the reasoning here is.)Perry
We are as believers under the New Covenant which says we are the righteousness of God in Christ , so does mean God will smite us with cancer? I realize many Christians suffer a great deal but i don't remember in the NT God directly causing a believer to incur sickness although that does'nt necessarily mean it can't happen even if it isn't mentioned. It is difficult to understand "grace" if it includes being smitten with cancer however.
Do you know what the reasoning behind this statement was? I just don't get it. If God could smite Uzziah with leprosy, why should be be less able to use cancer if he so chose?
(Not suggesting that the God does either as a general rule, just not sure what the reasoning here is.)Perry
We are as believers under the New Covenant which says we are the righteousness of God in Christ , so does mean God will smite us with cancer? I realize many Christians suffer a great deal but i don't remember in the NT God directly causing a believer to incur sickness although that does'nt necessarily mean it can't happen even if it isn't mentioned. It is difficult to understand "grace" if it includes being smitten with cancer however.
Re: Joy in Suffering?
Perry wrote:
But it appears that God did strike down Ananias and Sapphira, so apparently he had a temper in the NT too.
TK
I am not 100% certain, but he would likely say that God is good, God is love. Since cancer is bad, by definition, it is not in God's arsenal. I am likely simplifying greatly but I am sure that would be part of the reasoning. Steve7150 hit on it as well; that the OT is different from the NT-- Job was the question-- Jesus is the answer.Do you know what the reasoning behind this statement was? I just don't get it. If God could smite Uzziah with leprosy, why should be be less able to use cancer if he so chose?
But it appears that God did strike down Ananias and Sapphira, so apparently he had a temper in the NT too.
TK
Re: Joy in Suffering?
But it appears that God did strike down Ananias and Sapphira, so apparently he had a temper in the NT too.
They may or not really have been believers but instant destruction is a lot different then a giving someone a disease that can be very painful and linger for years.
It's true that through suffering people can be more motivated to seek God but smiting cancer on someone seems a lot more then a chastisement.
They may or not really have been believers but instant destruction is a lot different then a giving someone a disease that can be very painful and linger for years.
It's true that through suffering people can be more motivated to seek God but smiting cancer on someone seems a lot more then a chastisement.