Righteous requirement of the Law Rom 8:4

Post by **_Swiftelk** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:15 am

In Romans 8:4 it says

"that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit"

Do we need to live our life to "fulfill the righteous requirement" in order to get into heaven?

chapter 7 talking about our struggle with the law before being impowered with the Spirit. Then starting in chapter 8 "there is now" being the point of conversion. And we then "walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. "

I know most people think that the end of chapter 7 is talking about Paul's personal struggle with sin after his conversion in vs 13. It was suggested to me that all of chapter 7 is preconversion and 8 is post conversion.
That we through the spirit now have the power to live a righteous life and overcome sin. If we fall back into sin (galatians 5 Adultery, Fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry... so on...) even one time then we are cut off from God forever. No room for repentance. Heb 6

Well the next thought here is thoughts, but that makes everyone guilty because everyone has a thought or struggle with that at some point. They (the people suggesting this line of thought) would say "James 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin and sin when it is fullgrown, brings forth death."

So you can repent of it while it is still a thought, but if you act it out. (murder, adultery...) then you bring a "spritual death" upon yourself.

Just thought I would throw this out to you all and see what you think?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:39 am

That we through the spirit now have the power to live a righteous life and overcome sin. If we fall back into sin (galatians 5 Adultery, Fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry... so on...) even one time then we are cut off from God forever. No room for repentance. Heb 6

If this were true then it sounds not much different then the Law of Moses but John said "anyone who says he is without sin is a liar."
Heb 6 is context driven , meaning the jewish believers this letter is directed to were being persecuted and falling back into believing following the law of Moses would save them.
True repentence is always acceptable to God.

Post by **_Paidion** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:07 pm

Swiftelk, Hebrews 6 does not speak of "falling into sin", but of apostasy. When we apostasize, we get off the narrow road which leads to life. But "if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, the man Christ Jesus."

A passage which seems more supportive of your position is Hebrews 10:26,27:

For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.

But even this doesn't prove that a single sin cuts you off from God forever. Literally, the text reads:

For wilfully sinning us after receiving full knowledge of the truth, no more concerning sins remains a sacrifice, but some fearful expectation of judgment and a zeal of fire being about to consume the adversaries.

There is no doubt that this is a very severe warning. But it does not refer to single sin, but to a continuance of sin. Thus if we consciously decide to continue in wrongdoing in spite of God's warning against it, we will have to suffer the zeal of fire which God's adverseries suffer. This will consume us as we are at the time we are cast into the fire, in order to purify us.

However, if we "fall into sin" but are truly repentant of it, we may rest on the truth of another passage from Hebrews, chapter 4:15,16

For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Jesus was tempted just as we are, and yet He never sinned even once. But we sometimes stumble when we are tempted, and do sin. but if we truly repent of it, we can confidentally approach the throne of grace to receive both mercy, and find enabling grace to overcome next time. Jesus delights in delivering us from sin!

Post by **_Swiftelk** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:31 pm

so going back to rom 8:4

If the righteous requirement needs to fulfilled in us. Then we by the power of the Spirit need to live a sinless life? If we fall into sin then we can repent and be forgiven, but they (going back to the group that holds this theology) say that there is a sin unto death and not unto death and if you transgress the law physically... ten commandments.. then you have fallen from the grace of God and proven yourself to no longer be "in the Spirit" and thus have apostasized

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:44 pm

but they (going back to the group that holds this theology) say that there is a sin unto death and not unto death and if you transgress the law physically... ten commandments.. then you have fallen from the grace of God and proven yourself to no longer be "in the Spirit" and thus have apostasized

"Sin unto death" i believe means continually sinning until you physically die, it is not a singular sin.
Jesus himself broke the 10 commandments because when he was accused by the Pharisees he brought up the fact that David also broke the 10 commandments and Jesus also said he works everyday as does his Father which meant he broke the Sabbath.
Did Peter fall away and repent and get accepted back by Jesus, did Thomas doubt?

Post by **_Swiftelk** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:56 pm

The "seventh day" would be the exception because everyday is now a "Holy day". As far as the ten commandments goes. That issue is cleared up throughout the NT.

As far as David, he wasn't a "spirit filled" christian like we are today.
likewise Peter and Thomas were not yet "spirit filled" until the day of pentacost.

I don't mean to be argumentitive. I am trying to play the advocate here.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:20 pm

The "seventh day" would be the exception because everyday is now a "Holy day". As far as the ten commandments goes. That issue is cleared up throughout the NT.

As far as David, he wasn't a "spirit filled" christian like we are today.
likewise Peter and Thomas were not yet "spirit filled" until the day of pentacost.

They asked Jesus what the most important command was and if the 10 commandments were in effect you would think he would say "thou shalt have no other gods before the Lord thy God" but no he said something different, "Love the Lord" which is different. So i don't think the 10 commandments are really for the NT believer per se but rather to follow what Jesus and his apostles said.
Re Peter and Thomas are you saying when Peter said "you are the Christ the Son of the living God" and when Thomas said "my Lord and my God" they were'nt believers?
In Hebrew 11 there are people in heaven from the OT, yet they may not have been "spirit filled" but they believed and they were credited with righteousness.