Return of Jesus

[Guest]

Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

The angel's predict that Jesus will return in the same way that they saw him go into heaven. Is this verse to be taken literally or symbolically? Was it the angel's assertion that Jesus would return on a literal cloud from the literal sky? Or is there another point being made?

Your thoughts please.

Dave

[Guest]

Hi schoel-

well, if it is literal (which i believe that it is-- call me simple-minded) it doesn't mention anything about a white horse etc etc.

if i am a disciple, witnessing Jesus go up into a cloud, and then angels tell me that he will return in the same way, i would take that to mean that Jesus would descend from the clouds when he returns.

why wouldnt the disciples take the angels' statement at face value?

i am confident that others (maybe even you!) may have an alternate intepretation, which i am anxious to read.

TK

[_kaufmannphillips]

It seems to me that this might correlate to the "Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven" material (Daniel 7:13; Matthew 24:30 & 26:64; Mark 14:62).

And maybe the horse is in the trailer.

Shalom,
Emmet


P.S.: edited once to fix my quotation

[Guest]

And maybe the horse is in the trailer.

????????

[Guest]

I don't know what side of this you come down on, Dave. But in trying to understand the eschatology of most on here...I've come to see that they don't believe in an earthly Kingdom of CHrist. That at the end the damned will indeed be damned and cast into the lake of fire and we will be transported into heaven.

I may have oversimplified that...and I may have misstated the p.p. position (if so I apologize). But if that's it in a nutshell, where does the return of Christ fit in? How is it that he will descend as he ascended? If it's all over in one big blast and we are with Jesus and sinners are in the Lake of Fire........what was the angel talking about when he said He would return as He left?

[_kaufmannphillips]

????????

According to the 437th edition of the HDM (Heavens' Driver's Manual), all class "C" cloud formations are permitted to tow up to fifteen tons below the ionosphere, provided they are outfitted with a double axle and have sufficient side-mirrors to accomodate the trailer's width.



Shalom,
Emmet

[Guest]

I don't know what side of this you come down on, Dave. But in trying to understand the eschatology of most on here...I've come to see that they don't believe in an earthly Kingdom of CHrist. That at the end the damned will indeed be damned and cast into the lake of fire and we will be transported into heaven.

I may have oversimplified that...and I may have misstated the p.p. position (if so I apologize). But if that's it in a nutshell, where does the return of Christ fit in? How is it that he will descend as he ascended? If it's all over in one big blast and we are with Jesus and sinners are in the Lake of Fire........what was the angel talking about when he said He would return as He left?

I don't think we will go to heaven when Jesus comes. I believe Jesus is coming again, meaning coming here. So when Jesus comes it will be all the way and then there will be jugement to all. A good passage that I think about this event is Matthew 25:31-46

Why do we go up to meet Him if He's coming here? That's just the way lesser men show respect to greater men. That's how they treated Paul in Acts 28:15. They went out to meet him and turned around accompanying him on the rest of his trip. The 5 virgins in Mattew 25 also got up and went to meet the Lord when He arrived.

That's my take anyway.

[Guest]

I don't think we will go to heaven when Jesus comes. I believe Jesus is coming again, meaning coming here. So when Jesus comes it will be all the way and then there will be jugement to all. A good passage that I think about this event is Matthew 25:31-46


I agree, "as it was in the days of Noah" the wicked were taken away in judgement and the righteous were preserved through the flood. We will meet Jesus in the clouds to accompany him back to earth after the wicked are taken and the earth burned up IMO.

[Guest]

We will meet Jesus in the clouds to accompany him back to earth after the wicked are taken and the earth burned up IMO.

Hmmmm.... I don't understand how Jesus and we would return to earth after it's burned up.

[Guest]

Back to the original question...

Hi schoel-

well, if it is literal (which i believe that it is-- call me simple-minded) it doesn't mention anything about a white horse etc etc.

if i am a disciple, witnessing Jesus go up into a cloud, and then angels tell me that he will return in the same way, i would take that to mean that Jesus would descend from the clouds when he returns.

why wouldnt the disciples take the angels' statement at face value?

i am confident that others (maybe even you!) may have an alternate intepretation, which i am anxious to read.

TK

They might have taken the angel's statement in a literal way, but that may not have been the way it was intended to be taken. The disciples often misunderstood things that Jesus had to say about the Kingdom of God.

I find, as a Western 21st century person, that I tend to try to read the Bible as if its an encyclopedia or technical reference. I think this may cause me to impose a literalism on texts that don't deserve it.

Here's another thought: Maybe the angel's statement was not to imply that Jesus' return would involve flying through the sky or riding on a cloud (with his white horse trailer ), but to communicate that Jesus would return visibly, physically and suddenly. These categories would seem to fit his departure as well.

Another verse comes to mind:
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

When we read the phrase "descend from heaven", should we assume that heaven is literally and physically above us in a cloud or space? Or is that phrase communicating the authority of Jesus over the earth? The same question applies to the phrase "in the air."

In the same manner, are the clouds described here literal clouds, or is the use of clouds to describe an other-worldiness? Maybe the definition of clouds in this verse might also be applied to Acts 1:9-11.

Am I missing something?
Other thoughts?