Hebrews 6:4-6 (Once lost always lost????...surely not!)

Post by **_AARONDISNEY** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:04 pm

Thanks Les that was very helpful. I may have to read your post 2 or 3 times to solidify these points in my mind so I don't come across this again and go nuts about it again 8)

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:57 pm

Can the word in the sentence "impossible" sometimes elsewhere mean "nearly impossible" or "very difficult" or is it just simply a way of expressing the difficulty of such a situation?

The word translated as "impossible" literally means "without power".

Those who have once experienced the heavenly gift and the Holy Spirit ---- if they apostasize, they have made a choice. There is no power or ability
within themselves to repent and go back to what they rejected. Also, there is no power outside themselves to cause them to repent. If they choose to do so, they can repent. But is seems that in apostasizing, they have made up their minds.

Post by **_Homer** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:16 am

Les,

Just a minor quibble. You said:

the other view is Armenian or Wesleyan, a true Christian can fall away and become lost

I believe this view actually goes back to the earliest church.

I do not believe you can soften the meaning of "impossible" in the subject passage, but as I said earlier I believe it has reference to the agency of man. I am certain there are many who have fallen away, into spiritual death (me for 20+ years!), and God has brought them back.

I do not believe He gives up easily!

Post by **_Paidion** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:29 am

I have no desire to "soften the meaning of 'impossible'".

What I wish to do is to more accurately translate the Greek word "adunatos". It literally means "without power" or "without strength".

For example, here is the NASB translation of Romans 15:1

Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not just please ourselves.

Now if we insist on translating "adunatos" as "impossible", the verse will become:

Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those who are impossible and not just please ourselves.

Hmmmmm... Come to think of it, that translation makes a lot of sense too!

Post by **_Les Wright** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:57 pm

Hi Homer,

Point on minor quibble conceded. I agree. In fact, I think that Jesus and the apostles taught you could lose your salvation too.

The point was intended to give a sample of Christian traditions that hold such a view.

Honestly, I don't have the Hebrews verse completely figured out, but I like the alternatives..

Les

Post by **_thisglimpse** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:48 pm

The text of the verse appears to put strong emphasis not on what happens to the Christian when he "falls away", but on what that act does to Christ.

We don't know who wrote Hebrews. But if it was someone who knew him, who loved him, and who witnessed the crucifixion, I imagine that there could be nothing more horrifying than the idea of it happening again.

Such a person would have little or no sympathy for those who "crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame."