Just got through going verse by verse through 1 Peter..

[brody196]

And all I can say is "What a deep book!"

We have a bible study group that meets in our house every Sunday night, and we pick a book to go verse by verse through. Everyone offers their thoughts on the passages, so there is no one left out. Its very nontraditional, but when is that ever a bad thing?

So we get to chapter 3 and 4, and I must admit that I was stumped on several things I read. This whole business about "spirits in prison" and such was kinda hard to put a finger on. What are your thoughts?

Another verse I want to discuss is 1Pe 4:17 For the time [has come] for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if [it begins] with us first, what will [be] the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

What is you guys/gals thoughts on this one? Is it relevant to the 70 A.D thing? Or is it just a general warning?

[Suzana]

about "spirits in prison" - pass.

Another verse I want to discuss is 1Pe 4:17 For the time [has come] for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if [it begins] with us first, what will [be] the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

What is you guys/gals thoughts on this one? Is it relevant to the 70 A.D thing? Or is it just a general warning?

The letter was written to Christians scattered throughout the Roman Empire, & I don’t think they were Jews because in v. 2:10 it says “for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God;...”.

My understanding is that AD 70 was God’s judgement on Jerusalem, - unfaithful & rebellious Israel & their rejection of the Messiah.

“if it (judgment) begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?” – “us first” would surely be believers, the way it’s contrasted in the sentence with those who don’t obey the gospel;
the unbelieving Jews weren’t obeying the gospel, so this judgment can’t be referring to them? Also Peter had just exhorted the readers to “make sure none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer or a troublesome meddler”.
So I think that this is a statement to believers in general – v 4:12 says “Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing…”

I know I could be wrong in my reasoning of course, but that's how it reads to me.

[SteveF]

I think you raised some good points Suzana

[Paidion]

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. I Peter 3:18-20

Notice that these "spirits" formerly did not obey in the days of Noah. Apparently, they were among the evil people of the world who did not believe Noah, and would not repent of their evil deeds, and enter the ark of safety.

In the pre-diluvian world there were Nephilim who were the offspring of "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men". Tradition, both Jewish and Christian, has it that these "sons of God" were fallen angels. Angels certainly were called "sons of God" as is evidenced in the first chapter of Job.

I suggest that Peter was referring to those Nephilim as being the ones who did not obey during the days of Noah. Unlike ordinary human beings, these Nephilim (because of their angelic ancestry) possessed spirits which could exist separately from their bodies. When they died, their spirits were confined in "prison", perhaps Tartarus (2 Peter 2:4,5). So Jesus went to bring the gospel to these ones. No one else was in "prison" (or "hell" if you prefer), because normal human beings are dead when they die, and will stay dead until they are resurrected. So there was no one else "in prison" to whom Jesus could preach.

[brody196]

Keep em coming guys and girls..

Good stuff.

[psychohmike]

The letter was written to Christians scattered throughout the Roman Empire, & I don’t think they were Jews because in v. 2:10 it says “for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God;...”

I will vote to disagree with you on this one. I personally believe that this is speaking of those of the 10 northern tribes that had been dispersed at the hands of the Assyrians in 722 B.C. And I base this on what is said in the 1st and 8th chapters of Hosea.

Hosea 1:8 Now when she had weaned Lo-Ruhamah, she conceived and bore a son. Then God said: “ Call his name Lo-Ammi, For you are not My people, And I will not be your God.

The Restoration of Israel

“ Yet the number of the children of Israel Shall be as the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There it shall be said to them, ‘You are sons of the living God.’ Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel Shall be gathered together, And appoint for themselves one head; And they shall come up out of the land, For great will be the day of Jezreel!

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You see...I think that Peter's audience was comprised of "the WHOLE house of Israel." I personally believe that the initial purpose of the gospel having gone out to the gentiles was to fulfill that which was spoken of in the book of Hosea. The 10 northern tribes had been so wicked that in the "Eye's of God" Israel had become as Gentiles.

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed up; Now they are among the Gentiles Like a vessel in which is no pleasure.

Consider Romans 8:22-26 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

As He says also in Hosea:
“ I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
“ And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘ You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

You see...In Romans 8, Paul speaking of the Gentiles attributes what was happening in the first century as the fulfillment of Hosea's promises regarding the 10 northern tribes...Or the "house of Israel."

Does this help any???

[Suzana]

Well, it's something to think about. I know Peter was called the apostle to the 'circumcision', although he was also used to bring the gospel to gentiles (e.g. Cornelius).

I do know whenever I've heard this verse quoted (judgement beginning in the house of God), it was always used in reference to the Christian Church.
Anyone else with thoughts on this?

[RND]

Spirits in Prison.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Capital "S." Verse 18 is simply stating that Christ died in the flesh, but was quickened (made alive) by the Holy Spirit.

The NLT says it this way: "Christ also suffered when he died for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners that he might bring us safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit"

19 By which also he (the Holy Spirit) went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The same Spirit that made Jesus alive again is the same Spirit (he in verse 19) that preached to the spirits (souls) in prison. Prison was commonly a term used and associate with a sinful life. The same Spirit that raised Jesus Christ from the grave is the same Spirit that spoke to those while Noah was building the Ark.

Psa 142:7 Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me.

In one of the prophecies about the Messiah Isaiah says Christ will:

Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, [and] them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

[Paidion]

I agree with Psychomike that the context in Hosea indicates that "those who were not my people" refers to the northern tribes. However, the quote from Romans 9 shows that Paul applied "those who were not my people" becoming "those I will call 'my people' " to gentiles who become God's people through Christ.

What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory,even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘my beloved.’" and in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’" and Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved..." Rom 9:22-27

Paul seems to say in essence that many of the gentiles who are not God's people become God's people through Christ. But among the sons of Israel most are not God's people, but only a remnant of them will be saved.