Mark 9:49, "Salted with fire" Revisited

[Roberto]

I see the point you made about "all" being not literal. But how is the word used if it is intended to be literal? Can it mean a literal "all"?

That questions not addressed to me, but I'd like to say that it's sort of like the "limited negative" formulation. Without a hard and fast rule about when it's being used, it can be hard to tell. You just have to go by context and/or common sense, as best as you can, I guess.

So, if Jesus wanted to mean all in a literal sense, is there any way He could have?

[Singalphile]

So, if Jesus wanted to mean all in a literal sense, is there any way He could have?

I don't know. I don't dismiss Homer's suggestion, but I'm actually still inclined to take the "all"/"everyone" as just meaning "everyone". I don't necessarily have any problem with that. I'm just not sure what it means and what, if anything, it has to do with the surrounding verses.

[robbyyoung]

Hi All,

The audience being addressed is the disciples, I hope we can agree on this, for it is clearly stated in the text. Also, Gehena is mentioned, which is a literal place in the valley of Hinnom that represented judgement. The "salt and fire" anaology, perserved by trials, is spot on IMO and fits the context and pending destruction/salvation to come. I believe by losing focus of the relevant audience, we can miss what was historically accomplished in the lives of the original audience.

The literal physical hell, Valley of Hinnom, does not exist today. But it did exist in their lifetime and it's horrors were real. In our day we can learn from these past events but the literal physical events will not be repeated. Is there a Gehana (Hell) waiting for us today? Well that's a whole other topic

[jriccitelli]

Well then, I wonder if there is a 'promised land' waiting for any of us today, does anyone believe so, and where is it?

[steve7150]

Well then, I wonder if there is a 'promised land' waiting for any of us today, does anyone believe so, and where is it?

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jriccitelli

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Didn't Paul say several times he would rather depart and be with the Lord. Being with the Lord is heaven IMHO.

[jriccitelli]

I meant that the phrase 'promised land' was a literal place promised to Abraham and Issac (and Israel), yet all where looking to a greater country for which the promised terrestrial land represented. much the same as Gehenna represents.

I already wrote somewhere (in another thread) that Mark 9:49 is a conversation that has to be reconciled with Matthew 5:13, since that is the context from which the original conversation took place.

[robbyyoung]

I meant that the phrase 'promised land' was a literal place promised to Abraham and Issac (and Israel), yet all where looking to a greater country for which the promised terrestrial land represented. much the same as Gehenna represents.

I already wrote somewhere (in another thread) that Mark 9:49 is a conversation that has to be reconciled with Matthew 5:13, since that is the context from which the original conversation took place.

Dear Brother,

Yes, we can conflate Mark 9:49 with Matt 5:13 in the same context. Furthermore, I believe Matt 5:13 should be understood as "salt of the land" for it regards their specific mission. And vs.14 should be understood as "you are the light of the [current]established government", again, specific to their ministry. Remember, The Old Covenant system/world was still in place, therefore, the Jews (disciples) knew the language and literal signficance of Jesus' teachings. What the Jews struggled with was the passing away of the Old Covenant world and Jesus' spiritual explanation and fulfillment concerning it.

I believe we must first keep everything inside that known world, "Old Covenant and Roman Empire", for they are the intended audience and therefore our exgesis can be more enlightened. I think it's safe to say that the "Types and Shadows" are releveant to the Old Covenant. However, Jesus' ministry, which includes the entirety of the NT, is the fulfillment of ALL the types and shadows. Nothing in the NT is a Type or Shadow. The Anti-Type has no further fulfillment. Jesus' words stand forever.

Audience Relevance is an extremely important factor I use that assist in my understanding of any given conversation. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that Hell, like unto Heaven, doesn't exist spiritually.

God Bless!

[jriccitelli]

Can it mean a literal "all"? (Roberto)

The righteous (saved/forgiven) have already been qualified by many of the laborious passages and chapters in the Bible. The contexts ‘prior’ generally determine who is of the ‘all’ group.
The Bible has laid out the context and qualifications that lead to life and death from Genesis on, from the Garden, to Sodom, to Egypt, to the desert, across the Jordan, to Babylon, etc. this qualifies the way God chooses and who God chooses.