John The Baptist and "power"

[TK]

I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. Mt. 3:11

At that time Herod the tetrarch heard the reports about Jesus, and he said to his attendants, "This is John the Baptist; he has risen from the dead! That is why miraculous powers are at work in him." Mt. 14:1-2

I have been listening through the Bible, and the above passages raised a question. In the first passage, John the B said that someone was coming who was more powerful than him. I had never really thought about this before, but what made John the B powerful? Is it possible that he may have done some miraculous things which drew the crowds to him? Obviously if he did they are not noted in scripture.

The second passage seems to buttress this possibility; i.e. Herod thought that Jesus was a resurrected John the B because Jesus was doing miraculous works. If John the B had not done miraculous works, why would herod equate Jesus' miracles with John the B?

TK

[steve]

Then many came to Him and said, "John performed no sign, but all the things that John spoke about this Man were true." (John 10:41)

Perhaps Herod associated the ability to perform miracles with the phenomenon of having risen from the dead. In other words, in Herad's mind, the miracles were not explained in terms of what had been seen in John's earthly life, but in terms of a new power that might had been granted to him by God after restoring him to life.

[mattrose]

I think the 'power' in the first reference simply refers to the 'power' to baptize people with water for repentance. Jesus would prove to be more 'powerful' in the sense that He would be able to baptize people with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

The structure of the second reference seems to support Steve's point in my opinion.

I'm not familiar with any early references that say John did miracles

Josephus
“But to some of the Jews, Herod’s disaster seemed to be divine vengeance for is treatment of John, surnamed the Baptist. Although John was a good man and exhorted the Jews to lead righteous lives and practice justice toward their colleagues and piety to God, Herod had put him to death. John taught that baptism must not be employed to obtain pardon for sins committed, but as a consecration of the body, implying that the soul was already purified by proper behavior. When others also joined the crowds around John and were greatly aroused by his preaching, Herod grew alarmed that such eloquence could lead to rebellion. Therefore, he decided that it would be better to strike first and get rid of him, rather than wait for an uprising.”

Early Church Fathers
“John was a prophet among your nation. After him, no other prophet appeared among you.” (Justin Martyr)

“The blessed John, despising the locks of sheep as savoring of luxury, chose camel’s hair, and was clad in it. So he became an example of frugality and simplicity of life.” (Clement of Alexanderia)

“It was on account of the spirit that he was called ‘Elijah who was to come.’ (Origen)

The emphasis seems to be on his preaching and lifestyle. But he was a prophet. And prophets often did miracles. So It would be odd to boldly deny the possibility.

[Jill]

.

[TK]

Thanks all--

Steve- your reference to john 10:41 leaves me feeling rather sheepish. i guess that pretty much settles it.

anyone have any thoughts as to why the crowds were so drawn to John? He wasnt preaching a feel good message, but maybe they were ready for what eh was preaching.

TK

[Jill]

.

[Suzana]

anyone have any thoughts as to why the crowds were so drawn to John? He wasnt preaching a feel good message, but maybe they were ready for what eh was preaching.

TK

I would think it was God's anointing in his preaching, and that people were able to recognise that he spoke with authority (like they recognised about Jesus - Mat 7:29 For He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes).
As Karen said, APPROVED by God.
Maybe the very fact that John wasn't preaching a feel good message reminded them of other prophets of God, like Elijah etc. And perhaps, as when Samuel was called, 'the Word of the Lord was rare in those days', and the crowds were hungry for God.

[Jill]

.

[Pierac]

Here's an interesting interaction...
Act 19:1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.



Paul