Surely this was not a tantrum!

[Guest]

Just a couple of plugs for asking rather than commanding:

1.Jesus advocated asking:

Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it. John 14:13,14

If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! Matthew 7:11

James advocated asking:

2.James 4:2 You desire and do not have; so you kill. And you covet and cannot obtain; so you fight and wage war. You do not have, because you do not ask. James 4:2

[Guest]

Paidion-

i am not sure if there is a practical difference between asking and "commanding" if in fact you are speaking directly to a situation, and if you have authority. I recall the centurion telling Jesus that when he told his underlings to do something, they did it. he could have just as easily have said, "if i ask my servant to do something, he does it." In other words, asking=commanding if the person doing the asking has authority.

"Saying" to the mountain to move could also be called "asking" it to move- although "saying" to it has a hint more authority than asking it. Jesus didnt tell us to ask the mountain to move (or to ask God to move it)- he simply said to say it. now i dont think he was being literal about moving mountains, but was using a mountain as representive of problems or situations.

certain things only the Father can give. for those things we must ask. other things he has given us authority to deal with; Jesus seemed quite perturbed when the disiples told him they couldnt cast the spirit out of the young boy having epileptic fits. his expectation was that they should have been able to do so. he didnt say "why didnt you ask my Father to cast it out? you might say that he did- because he said that "this kind can only come out by prayer and fasting." however, i believe that he was talking about this kind of UNBELIEF, as opposed to this kind of SPIRIT.


TK

[Guest]

In the quotes I gave, there is clearly a great difference.

In these quotes, we are to ask God for something. We don't command Him to give it to us.

[Guest]

when the apostles worked a miracle, were they commanding God to do it, or were they just doing it? (on God's authority?)

i think you misunderstand me when i talk about "commanding". i am not talking about commanding God to do something. that would be extremely presumptious. i am talking about commanding something to happen, in Jesus name. commanding may be too strong of a word. "saying" or "speaking" is what Jesus seemed to require.

TK

[Guest]

Hi TK,

Just wanted to say that I’ve been following your thoughts on this subject for a bit now, and really appreciate your seeking heart. I think I’m pretty much with you on this one … trying to figure out how this “speaking to” applies to our lives without slipping over into any kind of Word of Faith error. I’ve been mulling this one over for some time, but am still pretty slow in drawing too many hard-headed conclusions. In addition to the examples you listed where Jesus seemed to teach such an authoritative approach to bringing about change here on earth (speaking to the fig tree, the mulberry tree, and the mountain), His own example seems to point this direction. He rebuked the wind and waves in Luke 8:24-25 … He rebuked the fever in Peter’s mother-in-law in Luke 4:39 … and He commanded the tongue and ears of the deaf mute to “be opened” in Mark 7:34. (Not to mention all the demons He commanded to come out of people.)

And Jesus apparently gave this same kind of working-on-earth authority to His disciples in Matthew 10. Are we expected to walk in this same authority today? (Of course, this is not an authority over God – a twisting His arm or compelling Him to do our will – but rather an authority from God to do His works.)

I also wonder if this “speaking to” and prayer are not joined together … that they work in partnership with one another instead of as some kind of “either-or” thing.

As you can see, I’m not really adding too much to the discussion, TK. Just wanted to let you know that I’m mulling along with you in this. I sure don’t want to miss out on anything God has for us as we step out in extending His kingdom here on earth.

By His Grace,

Gregg

[Guest]

thanks, greg, you apparently are just where I am on this. not wanting to miss something God expects of us, but not falling into Word of Faith teaching. The truth lies, somewhere.