The Narrow Path Ministries

Thanx Dane

I didn't want to debate over a rabbit trail.

Robin

All, I do believe God knows all, omniscience, and do believe He had a plan of salvation for His Church before the world was made, but I also believe His Church includes individuals and the two cannot be separated. Either we have, Plan 1 1. The Plan of salvation for the Church, God thought of before ...

Jess, Im still looking over your post, but have questions to help me in understanding this. It sounds like to me that what has been predestined is not the individuals who make up the Church, but more of the idea of the Church (like the plane analogy with no passengers, the plane predestined). Is thi...

Dane, I forgot to ask you this. Now that I understand the Church and individual distinction. Do you also separate Israel from all the individuals who are a part of Israel? I never understood Eph2 as "us" meaning just me, but "us" plural, all believers, the Church, but which included me. This is a ne...

Dane, Sorry, I didn't mean rejecting mystery leads to error. What I meant by saying that is if I believed there is some mystery in the Bible. However thought to myself I have this salvation thing figured out and lets say believed in calvinism, but took it to the extreme and followed only logical thi...

Jess and Sean, Thanks for the informed posts. I will need to look them over. Let me ask you this, It seems that what is predestined is the idea of the Church (from the flight analogy), not the Church itself. I see the universal Church is the totality of individual members and cannot be separated. Th...

Mort,

I'll check that out.

Robin

Dane, I am understanding what you have said to mean that God predestined the Church, so Eph2 is talking about the Church, not individual believers, am I correct? If this is so, I'm not really understanding though why a distinction is made (if its made) when the Church is made up of individual believ...

Thanx Dane for your post and both Steve's. There are great men of faith who stand on both sides of the argument. I will continue to listen to arguments on both sides. I heard Norm Geisler and Hank Hanagraff, both men I admire, speak against Reformed Theology many many times. Hank's father was reform...

All, Do you believe there is mystery to this topic? I read Steve will be debating James White. James never mentions mystery when on this topic. I wonder why? What do you do with the passages that speak of election? (Rom 8-9, Eph 2) That God chose from the foundation of the world? If you say, "God lo...