John 1:1-18

[Paidion]

You ask.... "By what authority do you pronounce that one has to be a Trinitarian in order to be a Christian?" What planet are you living on?

And I now ask, "How can you be so cock-sure of yourself, so as to impolitely ask what planet I am living on?" Or did you consider my original question to be impolite and and you are now retaliating? If so, I am sorry you were offended, and assure you that it was not my intention to offend you, but to get an answer.

You pick any Church on any corner of America and walk in and say... there is no Trinity... and you will find your authority!

I don't think that is an appropriate answer, since it is untrue. Though it is true that SOME Trinitarians believe that one has to be a Trinitarian in order to be a Christian.

If I walked into Galloway Apostolic Church, 1992 Galloway Rd., Galloway, Ohio and said, "There is no Trinity", I would be applauded. And there are dozens of United Pentecostal and Apostolic Churches in the U.S.A. who disbelieve in a Trinity. Theirs is the Modalist view, that God is a single divine Individual who expresses Himself in three different modes: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. As an analogy, they often refer to an actor who appears on the stage wearing three different masks at various times.

And Modalist churches are not the only ones who deny the Trinity. At one time the Worldwide Church of God were non-Trinitarians, but after Herbert W. Armstrong died, they became Trinitarians. However, the many offshoots from that church which maintain Armstrong's teachings, are still non-Trinitarians, and they have many churches in United States.

[Pierac]

Paul,

I am curious what your position is regarding who is a Christian and the Trinitarian doctrine. Is it your position that the Trinitarians are not saved and that your position (or those that hold your position, whatever it is) is the only belief acceptable to God? Or, alternatively, do you consider the doctrine of the Trinity (a correct understanding of it) to be critical in regards to salvation? Myself, I do not foresee us facing an exam on judgment day regarding the Trinity. And I regard myself (lightly) as Trinitarian.

As an aside, in all this back and forth on the creed and Arius and Athanasius, where was the Pope? I thought he was in charge!

No, I'm only pointing out how Trinitarians treat me/us. Only Trinitarians will be critical in regards to salvation!

However, I see a misunderstanding in your view... do you assume you had choice in the matter?

The pope was the ruling Caesar of the time my friend! How do you think disagreeing with him went?
Paul

[Pierac]

You ask.... "By what authority do you pronounce that one has to be a Trinitarian in order to be a Christian?" What planet are you living on?

And I now ask, "How can you be so cock-sure of yourself, so as to impolitely ask what planet I am living on?" Or did you consider my original question to be impolite and and you are now retaliating? If so, I am sorry you were offended, and assure you that it was not my intention to offend you, but to get an answer.

You pick any Church on any corner of America and walk in and say... there is no Trinity... and you will find your authority!

I don't think that is an appropriate answer, since it is untrue. Though it is true that SOME Trinitarians believe that one has to be a Trinitarian in order to be a Christian.

If I walked into Galloway Apostolic Church, 1992 Galloway Rd., Galloway, Ohio and said, "There is no Trinity", I would be applauded. And there are dozens of United Pentecostal and Apostolic Churches in the U.S.A. who disbelieve in a Trinity. Theirs is the Modalist view, that God is a single divine Individual who expresses Himself in three different modes: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. As an analogy, they often refer to an actor who appears on the stage wearing three different masks at various times.

And Modalist churches are not the only ones who deny the Trinity. At one time the Worldwide Church of God were non-Trinitarians, but after Herbert W. Armstrong died, they became Trinitarians. However, the many offshoots from that church which maintain Armstrong's teachings, are still non-Trinitarians, and they have many churches in United States.

So your saying you can freely reject the orthodox Christianity's view of the Trinity ... and just walk in any Church with loving arms?

Now... who is being honest now???

So stop lying to others that they can freely reject the trinity and still be accepted by orthodox Christianity!

Really, you want them to go through the abuse you had to endure with no warning? Your evil to suggest they follow you without warning!

It's foolishness to think your Worldwide Church of God had any impact on orthodox Christianity!!!

I'm severely disappointed with you!
Paul

[Homer]

Paidion,

I have the feeling you are being yelled at.

[Paidion]

I have the feeling you are being yelled at.

Seemingly, Homer. And with so many presumptions.

[Michelle]

I have the feeling you are being yelled at.

Seemingly, Homer. And with so many presumptions.

Well, you know how it goes when someone severely disappoints you.

[Paidion]

Yeh. I know what you mean, Michelle.

This boston terrier was severely disappointed when I gave him only dog food, and kept all the hamburger for myself.

[TheEditor]

Personally, I could do with a few less exclamation points.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards, Brenden.

[morbo3000]

I hold all sorts of weird beliefs that the church I am a member of doesn't quite know about. It's hinted at in some of my Facebook statuses. Honestly, I feel a degree of responsibility to let them know because I am a small group leader. But I feel I have a responsibility to the vision of my church to not be divisive about things I don't believe are necessary (even though they are quite important to me) so I keep them out of my teaching. I don't think I'm disingenuous for that. Just respectful. If I told them some of these things and they asked me not to teach it wouldn't be martyrdom. It would be me taking responsibility for what I believe and them being responsible to uphold their vision. And even then, I wouldn't be disfellowshipped.

Keith Green gave a message he originally titled "For Prophets Only," in which he described people who think they are prophets as actually having a useful gift, but the problem is, you can't turn them off once their message has been heard. I think a lot of so-called "persecution" of "prophets" is self-inflicted. A little niceness goes a long way to getting your message heard.

[Pierac]

Paidion,

I have the feeling you are being yelled at.

What do feeling have to do with truth?

I have the feeling you are being yelled at.

Seemingly, Homer. And with so many presumptions.

Presumptions are only Presumptions when You suggest, I have not actually lived out these truths, have not actually been told to leave a church due to my rejection of orthodox Christianity’s view on the trinity?

I have the feeling you are being yelled at.

Seemingly, Homer. And with so many presumptions.

Well, you know how it goes when someone severely disappoints you.

Do you really know how it goes… or do you follow the traditions of men? Like sucking up to the one who teaches you the most? (Not being mean but making an observation) So check yourself Michelle... Stop being a follower and start leading! You have the knowledge and truth on your own. That was a very poor suckup post...

Personally, I could do with a few less exclamation points.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards, Brenden.

Then start paying attention….

You all assume that I am somehow attacking Paidion… then weakly coming to his rescue without even looking at what we are debating.

I’m saying you cannot reject the trinity, like both me and Paidion do and then still be accepted by... orthodox Christianity. His comment that you could walk in to the orthodox Church, reject the trinity and still be accepted is a bold face lie not only to me but to you his fellow readers of his post. So I challenge you to go to a Church you have never attended... Tell the pastor, you reject the Trinity doctrine and now how do I sign up for membership. Let's see how far you get? You would not even get offered a hot dog at the after service social! To suggest other wise like Paidion did is not living/being in the truth.

If you feel you need to follow that path... your in good company.

Paul