Comment on Steve's verse by verse -Genesis

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Bookends
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Comment on Steve's verse by verse -Genesis

Post by Bookends » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:18 am

Hello again. I have been going through Steve's verse by verse commentary/teaching which I must say I have thus far enjoyed. Thank you Steve for making this available. However, Not that I agree with everything Steve says or not that I don't think on my own in regards with how one interprets such things. It is not my intention to bash Steve's perspective on anything but only open up other possible understandings either to give more light or receive more light. Iron sharpens Iron.

My comment is this (I've had inclinations to comment on other passages before, but chose not to write), in Genesis 36:31 Steve said that some people have a problem with Moses writing this: "Now these were the kings who reigned in the land of E'dom before any king reigned over the children of Israel:..." Several explanations Steve suggested was (1) that later in Israel's (the nation)history it was possible for an editor to have added this or (2) Moses foreknew Israel would have future kings based on Deuteronomy 17:14. Steve also mentioned that the second explanation was unlikely but possible (to some effect). If I have misunderstood you Steve, please let me know, also it is likely I have not phrased my train of thought clearly as so others can clearly understand what I'm trying to say. Anyway, I'd like to purpose that the second explanation is more likely then Steve may think for this reason; It is very possible that Moses wrote this, because in the prior chapter (35:11) a revelation was given to Israel (the man) by God that many kings would come from him. So at the point of Moses writing chapter 36, he already knew kings would follow Israel (the man).

What say you?
"Was the prodigal son, after his penitential return and forgiveness, less obliged to conform to the laws of his Father’s house than before he left it? No indeed, but more so." A.W. Pink

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steve
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Re: Comment on Steve's verse by verse -Genesis

Post by steve » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:06 am

Possibly so.

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Bookends
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Re: Comment on Steve's verse by verse -Genesis

Post by Bookends » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:22 am

To anyone wishing to respond;

1) In regards to Joseph's dealings/tests with his brothers in Egypt, it seems obvious we can draw a conclusion that Joseph wanted to be certain that his brother's had a genuine change of heart, disposition. Can we make a parallel and application that God does the same thing with Christians, allowing us to go through trails/tests to see if we have had a genuine conversion, change of heart, changed disposition? Wouldn't God already know this without tests? Are the test for us to know that we belong to Him?

2) After Joseph wept before all and restored the relationships between him and his brothers, why did Joseph feel the need to give to Benjamin 300 pieces of silver and 5 changes of garments? Why would Joseph feel the need to favor Benjamin at this point?



I always thought Joseph as one who the bible painted as one who was perfect, near sinless (I know no body is sinless), but the bible in general doesn't paint anyone, even the chosen of God (Abraham, Moses, King David, etc.) with an air brush. I'm meaning that even godly men chosen of God are portrayed in detail with all their faults, sins, and bad decisions. It seems to me now that Joseph did have some faults, he might have practiced divination and if he didn't, he surely lied about practicing it. And he also favored Benjamin over his brothers after their reconciliation.
"Was the prodigal son, after his penitential return and forgiveness, less obliged to conform to the laws of his Father’s house than before he left it? No indeed, but more so." A.W. Pink

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Re: Comment on Steve's verse by verse -Genesis

Post by mattrose » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:52 am

Bookends wrote:To anyone wishing to respond;

1) In regards to Joseph's dealings/tests with his brothers in Egypt, it seems obvious we can draw a conclusion that Joseph wanted to be certain that his brother's had a genuine change of heart, disposition. Can we make a parallel and application that God does the same thing with Christians, allowing us to go through trails/tests to see if we have had a genuine conversion, change of heart, changed disposition? Wouldn't God already know this without tests? Are the test for us to know that we belong to Him?
I don't think God is in doubt about the 'heart' behind our conversion. God knows all things. And past events are things. That being said, God is not JUST concerned with our past conversion. God is concerned with our ongoing conversion. Tests enable us to grow. And to the degree that the future choices of agents are genuinely free, God does discover what they will do through tests.
2) After Joseph wept before all and restored the relationships between him and his brothers, why did Joseph feel the need to give to Benjamin 300 pieces of silver and 5 changes of garments? Why would Joseph feel the need to favor Benjamin at this point?

I always thought Joseph as one who the bible painted as one who was perfect, near sinless (I know no body is sinless), but the bible in general doesn't paint anyone, even the chosen of God (Abraham, Moses, King David, etc.) with an air brush. I'm meaning that even godly men chosen of God are portrayed in detail with all their faults, sins, and bad decisions. It seems to me now that Joseph did have some faults, he might have practiced divination and if he didn't, he surely lied about practicing it. And he also favored Benjamin over his brothers after their reconciliation.
I don't think there is anything NECESSARILY wrong with Joe showing favoritism to Ben. Ben was his only full-blood-brother. That being said, there is no need to read everything Joseph did as 'perfect'

In regards to your original question, I also think your premise is possible. But I don't see a need to argue hard for Mosaic authorship of Genesis. I think the usual reason for pushing that is to counter late-dating-liberals. But I think a better counter to late-dating-liberals is to push the authorship of Genesis even further back than Moses. After all, Genesis itself seems to indicate that it is the work of various characters from Genesis (2:4, 5:1, 6:9, 10:1, 11:10, 11:27, 25:12, 25:19, 36:1, 36:9, 37:2. Moses, subsequently, served as the compiler of these works and perhaps edited some features. After Moses' death, the work appears to have been edited again so as to include Moses' death and, perhaps, some additional updates. I find none of this disagreeable to my own doctrine of inspiration.

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