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Preaching to Myself

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Re: Preaching to Myself

Postby robbyyoung » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:08 am

Hi Matt,

Great sermon, and I am in the YES camp!I was reminded that judgment is meted out or measured in accordance to one's knowledge of God and one's activity/inactivity regarding that knowledge (Luke 12:47, 48). Although babies and small children are not exempt from human suffering, either by God's hand or man's, they are afforded the rare status of innocence--not fully understanding the consequences of choosing between good and evil.

Moreover, I was reminded of the passage in 2 Kings 2:23, which is not steeped in eternal punishment, but rather earthly judgments or consequences for being irreverent. I believe your NT quotations are inspiring and critical to understanding the mind of God regarding the question, "Do children who die go to heaven?" Our end state is far more important than any human suffering in the world. Children die by the hundreds or even thousands every single day, but God's grace is greater than any tragedy or misfortune that might befall them. We should indeed be encouraged and understand, like David, we will go to them!

Blessings my friend!
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Re: Preaching to Myself

Postby Homer » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:38 am

Matt,
Great job, very well thought out and very well delivered!

A couple thoughts. One is that if we say that a child is in peril at the point that they grasp and understand the gospel message then we have a subjective standard. Is the child under grace for a period of time until the child acts to accept the gospel they appear to understand?

I recall the story of the boy who wanted to be baptized. It seems most churches today would leap at the chance. In this case after the church service ended the pastor took the boy aside and sat with him explaining the gospel. The boy fidgeted for several minutes and finally asked "can I go play now?" He definitely was not ready. I think in many cases the children are motivated to do what other kids are doing.

I recall reading something by an Anabaptist who had done research into the age people were baptized among their movement. Many years ago it was commonly at about the age of twenty but had gotten earlier and earlier as the years went by until they were baptizing kids. As one preacher remarked "why are we trying to save those who are not lost"? Anyway it seems that science has shown that brains are not fully developed even as a teenager.

This is not to say that a person can not come to Christ at the age of twelve, but I think God does not hold them accountable until later than we might think.

Again, great job! If you are looking for any criticism I do not have any.
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Re: Preaching to Myself

Postby mattrose » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:46 pm

robbyyoung wrote:Hi Matt,

Great sermon, and I am in the YES camp!I was reminded that judgment is meted out or measured in accordance to one's knowledge of God and one's activity/inactivity regarding that knowledge (Luke 12:47, 48). Although babies and small children are not exempt from human suffering, either by God's hand or man's, they are afforded the rare status of innocence--not fully understanding the consequences of choosing between good and evil.

Moreover, I was reminded of the passage in 2 Kings 2:23, which is not steeped in eternal punishment, but rather earthly judgments or consequences for being irreverent. I believe your NT quotations are inspiring and critical to understanding the mind of God regarding the question, "Do children who die go to heaven?" Our end state is far more important than any human suffering in the world. Children die by the hundreds or even thousands every single day, but God's grace is greater than any tragedy or misfortune that might befall them. We should indeed be encouraged and understand, like David, we will go to them!

Blessings my friend!


Thanks for the encouragement, feedback, and further verses for contemplation :)
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Re: Preaching to Myself

Postby mattrose » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:50 pm

Homer wrote:Matt,
Great job, very well thought out and very well delivered!

A couple thoughts. One is that if we say that a child is in peril at the point that they grasp and understand the gospel message then we have a subjective standard. Is the child under grace for a period of time until the child acts to accept the gospel they appear to understand?

I recall the story of the boy who wanted to be baptized. It seems most churches today would leap at the chance. In this case after the church service ended the pastor took the boy aside and sat with him explaining the gospel. The boy fidgeted for several minutes and finally asked "can I go play now?" He definitely was not ready. I think in many cases the children are motivated to do what other kids are doing.

I recall reading something by an Anabaptist who had done research into the age people were baptized among their movement. Many years ago it was commonly at about the age of twenty but had gotten earlier and earlier as the years went by until they were baptizing kids. As one preacher remarked "why are we trying to save those who are not lost"? Anyway it seems that science has shown that brains are not fully developed even as a teenager.

This is not to say that a person can not come to Christ at the age of twelve, but I think God does not hold them accountable until later than we might think.

Again, great job! If you are looking for any criticism I do not have any.


I feel the same way about baptism. We have an AWANA program at one of my churches. Kids often express interest in baptism (kids 4-12 years old). I decided a few years back to create a bit of a bureaucracy. I tell any kids interested to come to a meeting where I will teach a kid version of my baptism class. Only some show up. Then at the end of the class I tell the kids to write a letter to me explaining why they want to be baptized. I've yet to receive such a letter. Basically the kids, at that age, lose interest in 2 steps. And I don't mean that as a criticism against them by any means. I just don't think they are quite ready. There is one boy that keeps mentioning to me that he still intends to write the letter. I hope he does. He seems close to ready.
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Re: Preaching to Myself

Postby TruthInLove » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:03 am

Hi all,

This subject has always troubled me and I've been thinking about this quite a bit as of this post. There are some very good points mentioned here in favor of the existence of an age of accountability. Personally, I hope one does exist.

However, if it does exist, I'm curious as to the implications this has regarding God's justice and love. I also wonder how necessary His recorded means of salvation actually was if this apparent alternative exists.

To say things another way, if God allows some people to die prior to reaching an age of accountability, how just/loving is it for Him to not provide this same mechanism for all people? Why isn't everyone given the privilege to die at such an age? Further, wouldn't it have been more effective for God to have simply limited man's life to the age of accountability in Genesis 6 instead of 120 years?

I'm undecided either way. Just some thoughts I often consider.

- Carmine
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