No Promise of Eternal Life!

[Paidion]

I am amazed that Homer is still on the theme of "aiōnios". It must be a point crucial to his most fundamental beliefs. Well, I agree that it is crucial.

The fact is that "aiōnios" never means "eternal" as I have affirmed when writing on the topic over 14 months ago. The word means "lasting", and is applied this way in all secular Greek literature. For example, a stone wall is described as being "aiōnios", meaning that the wall is "lasting" or "durable", but certainly not "eternal". Such examples will not convince Homer, for he agrees that the word "sometimes" has meanings other than "eternal", but insists that when the New Testament writers use the word to describe either "life" or "punishment", the word always means "eternal". However, the concept of "lasting" or "durable" is quite different from that of "eternal"; it seems far-fetched to use the same word for such diverse concepts. Furthermore, Christ's words that the "sheep" are given "aiōnios" life, while the "goats" go to "aiōnios" correction, do not support the meaning "eternal" for the word. Correction cannot be eternal; if it were, it couldn't be "correction" for the individual would be in an eternal state of correction, but the correction would never be completed. Yes, we know that "kolasis" has been translated as "punishment" but the word has its origin to refer to the pruning of trees to correct their growth, and later began to be used figuratively to correct the behaviour of people. The fact that the sheep are given "lasting life" in no way requires that their life is temporal. For some things that are lasting, last forever, and others don't. I know of no passage in any part of the New Testament (or the Old Testament Septuagint) where the translation "lasting" does any injustice to the meaning of a passage.

Besides, there is a word in the New Testament "aidios" which does have the meaning "eternal".
It is used in the passage:

Romans 1:20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse...

If the New Testament writers wanted to scare us into the Kingdom by warning us of eternal misery, why did they not use the unequivocal "aidios" to describe the agonies of Gehenna? Besides, although Paul often warned people of the consequences of wrongdoing, he didn't threaten them with Gehenna (hell) even once in any of the 12 letters he wrote (13 if you deem him the author of Hebrews). The concept of eternal hell seems to have been first promoted by Gregory of Nyssa, and then taken up and propagated by Jerome and Augustine.

[Homer]

Hi Paidion,

Welcome back - you have been missed!

Don't have time for more at the moment, but here is something for you to consider in the meantime - following are a couple verses that explain why aionios describes something eternal; specifically, beings who existed before time began and who will continue to exist after time has ended.

Hebrews 9:14 (New King James Version)
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal (aionios) Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Romans 16:26 (New King James Version)
26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting (aionos) God, for obedience to the faith—

So go ahead and tell us that we have an "age God" and an "age Spirit", I realize that your argument that "aionios never means eternal" is an argument of desperation for your cause.

Blessings to you! Homer

[steve7150]

So go ahead and tell us that we have an "age God" and an "age Spirit", I realize that your argument that "aionios never means eternal" is an argument of desperation for your cause.








This discussion is as if has time has stood still, as if Paidion has never been gone but it's actually a "lasting/aionios" discussion that transcends time. I can visualize Homer and Paidion debating this in the next aion.

[Todd]

I agree that understanding the term "eternal life" is crucial to this discussion. Does it mean "unending life", "lasting life", "the life of the age" or something else.

Consider the man overcome in sin whose life is filled with guilt, shame, contempt, anxiety, fear and corruption. His life is one of misery. Someone comes up to this man and says, "if you believe in Jesus your life will continue forever." Does that sound like a good deal?....the man's miserable life extending on forever? No! that would not be a good deal, nor would it be good news. This man needs deliverance from his miserable life.

However, if someone comes up to him and says, "if you believe in Jesus, you can be delivered from the miserable life you have now; instead, you can have the kind of life filled with love, joy, peace and contentment - eternal life. That indeed would be good news. In fact, what I have just described is what salvation is all about - being delivered from a miserable life overcome in sin to one that has the fruit of the Spirit.

Todd

[Paidion]

Thank you for welcoming me back, Homer!

So go ahead and tell us that we have an "age God" and an "age Spirit", I realize that your argument that "aionios never means eternal" is an argument of desperation for your cause.

I clearly stated in my post that "aiōnios" means "lasting" or "durable" and referred to classic Greek literature as verification of the fact.

I also wrote:

Some things that are lasting (aiōnios), last forever, and others don't.

So God and the Spirit of God are among the things which last forever. For the denotation of the word "aiōnios" includes both eternal and temporal things. But that fact in no way implies that "aiōnios" ever means "eternal"

[look2jesus]

Hello Todd,

I wondered how this verse fits in with your statement:

Eternal life is God's gift in this present age to those who follow Christ in faith. Immortality is what we receive in the resurrection because Christ conquered death for every man.

Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. ESV Mk 10:29-30

Thanks,

l2j

[Todd]

Hello Todd,

I wondered how this verse fits in with your statement:

Eternal life is God's gift in this present age to those who follow Christ in faith. Immortality is what we receive in the resurrection because Christ conquered death for every man.

Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. ESV Mk 10:29-30

Thanks,

l2j

l2j,

This is a good question. When Jesus said this He was living in the pre-church age. At that time, the "age to come" was the church age; therefore, eternal life was something not yet available until the Holy Spirit was sent to guide us and produce spiritual fruit. It is the love, joy, peace, patience, etc., which are fruits of the Spirit, which constitute the blessings of eternal life.

Todd

[steve7150]

Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. ESV Mk 10:29-30







According to Rotherham's "eternal life" is translated as "and in the age that is coming " (life age abiding). Interesting Jesus could have simply said "eternal life" instead of "in the age to come, eternal life."

[Paidion]

"... and in the age to come, lasting life."
Once again, "aiōnios" never means "eternal" (though it sometimes denotes that which is eternal).

[look2jesus]

Paidion,

I would like to add my welcome back, to the many which have been expressed. It's good to hear from you.

Question:
Is it possible that the phrase "lasting life", to the first century inhabitants of Palestine, may have been understood as we understand eternal to mean? Or is there any reason to exclude that possibilty? It seems clear to me that the N.T. as a whole would indicate that believer's will live forever with God.

l2j