A Question about Conditional Immortality

[Paidion]

The way I see it is that immortality is indeed conditional. Even the immortality of the "saved" is conditional.

As Paul points out in I Corinthian 15:51-51, the present mortal nature must be clothed with immortality at the coming of Christ. We are not presently immortal, nor are we immortal in the "intermediate state", but we will become immortal only when Christ raises us at His coming:

Look! I am telling you a secret!We shall not all be put to sleep, but we shall all be transformed --- in an instant, in a blink of an eye, at the last trumpet For a trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised undefilable and we shall be transformed. for it is necessary that this defilable [nature] be clothed with the undefilable and the mortal be clothed with the immortal . ---- a "literal" translation

I am unaware of any scripture indicating that the "lost" will be raised immortal at Christ's coming. But to my mind, it is not necessary to conclude that they will therefore be annihilated. As I see it, their state in Gehenna will not be a state of immortality, but a state in which God keeps them alive until they repent and submit to Christ. Then they will be granted immortality in the same sense that the "saved" are so granted.

[steve7150]

Yet death exercised dominion from Adam to Moses". Rom 5.12

The last phrase about death exercising dominion until Moses would not jive to physical death since it continued unabated after Moses.
I think it also alludes to Adam's death "in this day" being spiritual death.

Hi Steve, I think the reason he mentioned mentioned "Adam to Moses" was he was trying to show the penalty of sin (death) existed before the law (Moses) and not only after the law was given.




Hi Steve, You may be right yet to me if physical death is what Paul meant it just seems odd for a couple of reasons. First everyone knew physical death existed before Moses , that natural fact is plainly described in scripture from Adam on and repeated dozens of times before Moses. Secondly the law of Moses had nothing to do with physical death, it was about bridging the spiritual separation from God which Paul may have perceived as spiritual death.

[anochria]

[quote="Paidion"]
I am unaware of any scripture indicating that the "lost" will be raised immortal at Christ's coming. quote]

So that I understand you clearly, you're emphasizing the "immortal" here, right? You're not disagreeing that there is evidence in Scripture of the "lost" being resurrected before the judgment, right? You're just saying that even in that resurrection they aren't inherently immortal. Is that correct?

[Paidion]

CORRECT on all counts!

[Todd]

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

As I read 1 Cor 15 it is not clear that those who were "unsaved" during their lifetime are excluded from the resurrection to immortality. Verse 22 (quoted above) may indicate that Paul's discorse includes all of humanity.

Also, in Romans 8, we are told that all of creation will be delivered from corruption and share the same glorious liberty with the sons of God, which leads me to believe that their resurrection is the same.

Rom 8:18-21
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Verse 21 (bolded) is similar to this verse in 1 Cor 15

1 Cor 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Todd

[auggybendoggy]

Hey all,
Thought I'd drop this invite. Glenn Peoples at Beretta blog and subscriber to Conditional Immortality will be at our forum http://www.evangelicaluniversalist.com to dialogue, one on one, with Dr. Thomas Talbott. He is currently getting familiar with Talbott's work and Dr. Talbott is currently researching People's views. It should be a great discussion. We do plan on opening questions at the end of this discussion.

God Bless,

Auggy

[darinhouston]

can't find the discussion part of the forum.

[Michelle]

can't find the discussion part of the forum.

Do you mean the discussion between Dr. Talbott and Dr. Peoples? If so, it hasn't started yet.

[auggybendoggy]

Thought I'd let you know that Glenn has posted his opening statement.

Auggy

[AaronBDisney]

I've never really looked into this topic much. But concerning the question of consciousness of the unrighteous dead prior to the lake of fire, is there anything relevant in the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

I can't say for certain, but I've always assumed that story to be an actual account. Doesn't really seem like the parable that some people call it. If it is indeed true, doesn't the fact that the rich man interacts with Abraham tell us something?