1 Corinthians 2:14

[Guest]

Hi, I know this verse is used by calvinists to show that man is totally depraved, and cannot choose God because the things of God are spiritual,
so they say the Holy Spirit must come first before you can accept the message of salvation.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can they know them , because they are spiritually discerned.

I noticed Pauls theme before this verse is to distinguish between earthly wisdom, and the wisdom of God. If you read after in ch.3 he says to the Corinthians that they are so carnal, that they cannot understand the spiritual wisdom Paul was talking about, because they were not acting as such people that have been regenerated.
So it does not seem as if Paul is saying that you cannot recieve the message of salvation untill after you get the spirit, it seems he is saying in order to understand the wisdom of God you need the help of the Spirit to understand the "Solid Food", not that you cannot "choose" God at all.

Also in Gal:3;2 it says;
Did you receieve the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith?

John 3:16;
whoever believes in Him should have eternal life

It seems to me that believing preceeds rebirth, not rebirth preceeding believing.

Am I understanding 1 Corinthians 2:14 correctly?
If anyone has any insight to this verse or anything to add i would greatly appreciate it.

God Bless,

Jason

[Guest]

So it does not seem as if Paul is saying that you cannot recieve the message of salvation untill after you get the spirit, it seems he is saying in order to understand the wisdom of God you need the help of the Spirit to understand the "Solid Food", not that you cannot "choose" God at all.

Right on, I would interpret the verse the same way.

Agape,

loaves

[Guest]

Paul isnt even addressing ,specifically ,salvation in these verses. hes talking about Natural man cannot understand things of the spirit because natural man has the spirit of the world whereas we have the spirit which is of God, therefore we can understand spiritual things. The Things that come from the spirit of God.....things in my mind refers to things. not specifically salvation although salvation is one one of those things but not set aside as the specific thing being talked about. interesting that the wisdom spoken by Paul was a secret wisdom. wisdom that was HIDDEN from the world. a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. So God has purposly hidden it from the world. but God has Revealed it to us by his spirit. Now because the rulers of this age didnt understand it they crucified Christ. If they did understand it Christ would not have been crucified. So God purposly used the hiding of truth to certain people so that His ends would be accomplished. rom 9 he also used pharoe. regarding salvation Jesus said NO man can come unto me unless it is granted by the father. CAN refers to ability. no man has the ability to come to me. spiritually dead people cant do anything spiritual just as as dead man physically cant do jumping jacks. Regeneration then faith then salvation and its all a gift from God. To God be ALL the glory.

[Guest]

Jeffwall,

"The gospel is the power unto salvation". Has it occured to you that the Father has granted to mankind, through the preaching of the gospel, the ability to come to Jesus? Or do you see the gospel, "the living word", as powerless?

[_Sean]

I think it's interesting that Calvinist try to use this verse when Paul uses it about saved people! They should read the context a little better.

[Guest]

Jeffwall,

"The gospel is the power unto salvation". Has it occured to you that the Father has granted to mankind, through the preaching of the gospel, the ability to come to Jesus? Or do you see the gospel, "the living word", as powerless?

Where does it say that the father has granted the ability to come to Jesus for salvation to all mankind? He says the exact opposit. the whole context of john 6. 44 on one can come unless.......then 60 this is hard to accept 63 the spirit gives life. the words i have spoken to you are spirit, yet some dont bellieve JESUS KNEW FROM THE BEGGINNING WHICH OF THEM DID NOT BELIEVE>again then he says THis is WHY I told you that no one can come to me unless the father has enabled him. then a bunch of them left then said to the 12 do you want to leave too? peter said WE BEILIEVE and know that you are it then Jesus said Oh by the way, Isnt it me that chose you. also answer the question if you whould, Did Jesus hide wisdom from the world? what was his purpose in doing so? If Jesus hides truth from people then they cant respond correctly because they have nothing to respond to. Did not jesus in the parable of the sower purposly speak in parables so as to hide the truth so that certain people would not believe?

[Guest]

I think it's interesting that Clavinist try to use this verse when Paul uses it about saved people! They should read the context a little better.

explain the context to me. where is this used concerning saved people. Jesus is talking about two different type of people....those who can come to him and those who cant. abviously some who were his diciples were not beilievers because after hearing then not accepting the teaching they left. the whole issue is regarding those listen and those who dont. those who listen and follow are true believers, they who dont arnt. it doesnt get into the process of how they became beilievers....faith verses regeneration. it just says that those who listen WILL come. I have come down out of heaven not to do my will but the will of him who sent me and the will of him who sent me is all that the father has given me I will loose none. but raise them ALL up on the last day. The father has given the son a people and they will all come they will all listen they will all be raised up on the last day. true christians do not have the ability to fall away and go to the other side.

[Guest]

Concerning John 6, maybe you should see this Jeff Wall!
http://www.christiancourier.com/questio ... nation.htm

[Guest]

This commentary is by Steve Jones, a former Calvinist

1 Corinthians 2:14
Total Inability is supposed to be taught in 1 Corinthians 2:14: "For the man without the Spirit [or 'natural man'] does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Calvinists will sometimes say, based on this text, that the unregenerate cannot even grasp biblical truths. But is that the idea Paul is articulating? The context does not seem to be dealing with man in his state of birth, but of the various spiritual obstacles Jews and Greeks face. It is particularly those who are "natural men," men who relate to all things outside of a spiritual reference point. The words of 1 Corinthians 2:14 must be understood within the flow of 1:18 through 2:16.
Gentiles esteem the gospel as foolish because of their penchant for philosophical wisdom (1:22). Jews are repelled by the stumbling block of the cross and their need for signs (1:22,23). Both groups generally have problems that render them spiritually obtuse, driving them to the conclusion that the gospel is foolish.
All of these problems, of course, grow out of human sin. No one would deny that. But Paul is not here making a sweeping theological statement about a Total Inability in every human being. He speaking generally of those "perishing" opposers - both Jews and Greeks - of the message. The context would certainly favor this interpretation.
Paul in other places makes general statements that we would never make absolute and theological. For example, he writes to Titus: "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons" (Titus 1:12). The assessment is a quote from "a prophet of their own," but the apostle concurs in verse 13: "This testimony is true." Is it really the nature of every Cretan who enters the world? Wouldn't all agree that Paul is speaking generally and not absolutely about Cretans?
But what of the mention of the term "natural man" (lit. "soulish man") in 1 Corinthians 2:14? The Calvinist assumes that which remains to be proved. He insists that Paul means man in his natural-born state. The New International Version bolsters this view by paraphrasing "natural man" as "the man without the Spirit." But commentators are not agreed on this. William Barclay, for example, writes:
"So in verse 14 Paul speaks of the man who is psuchikos. He is the man who lives as if there was nothing beyond physical life and there were no needs otherthan material needs, whose values are all physical and material. A man like that cannot understand spiritual things. A man who thinks that nothing is more important than the satisfaction of the sex urge cannot understand the meaning of chastity; a man who ranks the amassing of material things as the supreme end of life cannot understand generosity; and a man who has never a thought beyond this world cannot understand the things of God. To him they look mere foolishness."10
"Natural man," then, need not mean "man in his native state." The Calvinist here allows his theological presuppositions to drive his exegesis. The term can very easily be understood to mean "that man who relates to life apart from a spiritual paradigm." Nothing in the text demands that this is a description of every person who enters the world.

[Guest]

This commentary is by Steve Jones, a former Calvinist ...

Good stuff!

Thanks Guest.