Isaiah 1:2-4
"Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward."
Here God calls these people His children. That He personally raised them. Are we to assume that God withheld the saving grace that would cause their obedience? Would not a good Father give His children all the necessary things for life, repentance,and joy?
Isaiah 5:4
"What could have been done more to my vineyard (Israel), that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?"
Was God being sincere when He lamented that He did all He could do to produce good fruit in Israel?
Was God A Bad Father?
Was God A Bad Father?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"He who learns must suffer.Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God." Aeschylus
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If your contention is that God did whatever was necessary to save Israel, then either (1) salvation is universal to Israelites, because God has done everything necessary to save them, or (b) the "all" that God did was not sufficient to save them. The former case destroys any need for the gospel, if all are saved. The latter case allows God's will to be frustrated by men, and thus makes God impotent.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Well of course, that is exactly what God said: Isaiah 5:4de wrote:If your contention is that God did whatever was necessary to save Israel, then either (1) salvation is universal to Israelites, because God has done everything necessary to save them, or (b) the "all" that God did was not sufficient to save them. The former case destroys any need for the gospel, if all are saved. The latter case allows God's will to be frustrated by men, and thus makes God impotent.
"What could have been done more to my vineyard (Israel), that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?"
God did all He could to produce good fruit in Israel. And seeing that God does not force men to love Him - yes men do frustrate Him.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"He who learns must suffer.Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God." Aeschylus
de,
For a man to be able to frustrate God's desire to save him does not make God impotent. The God who created the universe and worked wonders in Israel and raised Jesus from the dead is anything but impotent. But a being can have all power and still have no stomach for love that is offered to Him only under duress.
To say that God has all power does not mean that He can act against truth or against His own nature. He "cannot lie" (Titus 1:2) and "He cannot deny Himself" (2 Tim.2:13). Despite His omnipotence, God cannot pardon and condemn a man for the same act. He cannot make an object that is a perfect circle and a perfect square at the same instant. Nor can He force a being to love Him, and maintain that creature's freedom of choice in the matter simultaneously. Even God must choose between mutually exclusive options.
A man may desire that a certain woman would love and marry him. He might even have a gun, handcuffs, and all the power necessary to force her compliance with his wishes, and yet he may NOT wish for her to marry him under those forced conditions. He may be much more powerful than the maiden in question, but still not have the power to coerce her love. If it is her voluntary love that he is seeking, and she will not give it, then his wishes are frustrated, no matter how powerful he may be.
For a man to be able to frustrate God's desire to save him does not make God impotent. The God who created the universe and worked wonders in Israel and raised Jesus from the dead is anything but impotent. But a being can have all power and still have no stomach for love that is offered to Him only under duress.
To say that God has all power does not mean that He can act against truth or against His own nature. He "cannot lie" (Titus 1:2) and "He cannot deny Himself" (2 Tim.2:13). Despite His omnipotence, God cannot pardon and condemn a man for the same act. He cannot make an object that is a perfect circle and a perfect square at the same instant. Nor can He force a being to love Him, and maintain that creature's freedom of choice in the matter simultaneously. Even God must choose between mutually exclusive options.
A man may desire that a certain woman would love and marry him. He might even have a gun, handcuffs, and all the power necessary to force her compliance with his wishes, and yet he may NOT wish for her to marry him under those forced conditions. He may be much more powerful than the maiden in question, but still not have the power to coerce her love. If it is her voluntary love that he is seeking, and she will not give it, then his wishes are frustrated, no matter how powerful he may be.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve