vaccines

[dseusy]

KyleB,

My wife and I have been battling through this issue and we were forced to leave our pediatrician due to not following the schedule (despite the pediatrician's handbook/their "bible" stating not to refuse care due to this). My wife and I read a book by Dr. Sears, "The Vaccine Book", where he presents facts for you to make your own choice... he has a personal stance but he does a decent job of just presenting the info. My personal conclusion of the matter is that some vaccines have been in the interest of public health (for the most part), but not necessarily personal health.

[crgfstr1]

I only recently learned that aborted fetal tissue was used the create the MMR vaccine and possibly others. For this reason alone shouldn't Christians be outraged at California's decision to require them?

I don't want to be forced to be an accomplice to an abortion. How do we stop this?

[jaydam]

The greater risk might be the interference of the government in your parenting rights, if they learn that you are avoiding vaccinating your children, and some social worker thinks that this constitutes neglect on your part.

This.

As newly married and looking to have kids, I have been reading up on vaccines.

I believe I have comfortably arrived at a delayed and spaced out schedule that does not introduce vaccines so early and so grouped together to be overwhelming.

There are some like HPV, which I see no need for since it is a sexually transmitted disease.

I don't think it is a "trust God or vaccine" issue. Rather I believe it is a "make the most educated choice I know to make and trust God to protect us if I err" issue.

There is a level at which I believe God expects us to make use of our knowledge and medicine. It doesn't go against trusting him.

Anyway, the greater concern for me has been what Steve mentioned. There has been a renewed uptick in legislation recently that is moving towards calling it child abuse to not give your child vaccines.

Even a delayed program of vaccinations like I believe might be better could be u permitted soon.

If it reaches the point where you will lose custody of your own child, and the government will vaccinate them anyway, then I see no reason to lose your kids.

Have them vaccinated, trust God will protect their health, and don't lose custody of them.

Up to the point it violates a confession of Christ, I don't see why I would buck the system and have my children taken away.

Be it mandatory vaccinations, required public school attendance, etc.

Such mandates are down the road, but could be around the next corner, just don't know.

[jaydam]

I only recently learned that aborted fetal tissue was used the create the MMR vaccine and possibly others. For this reason alone shouldn't Christians be outraged at California's decision to require them?

I don't want to be forced to be an accomplice to an abortion. How do we stop this?

Here is an interesting post I came across when looking up the subject of abortion and vaccines.

http://www.drwile.com/lnkpages/render.asp?vac_abortion

I cannot vouch for the guy, but his article seemed a very good starting point for more study which I have not conducted.

[crgfstr1]

I only recently learned that aborted fetal tissue was used the create the MMR vaccine and possibly others. For this reason alone shouldn't Christians be outraged at California's decision to require them?

I don't want to be forced to be an accomplice to an abortion. How do we stop this?

Here is an interesting post I came across when looking up the subject of abortion and vaccines.

http://www.drwile.com/lnkpages/render.asp?vac_abortion

I cannot vouch for the guy, but his article seemed a very good starting point for more study which I have not conducted.

Thank you Jaydam. Everything in the article is probably technically correct but extremely misleading. The continued production of the vaccines does not require abortion nor is there any aborted tissue present in the vaccine. The problem is that the initial creation of the vaccine was done on aborted tissue. All follow on vaccines are from that first strain and would not exist without that first aborted tissue. To me that does not absolve the vaccine. If there were never any abortions that vaccine wouldn't exist at least not in its present form. I think this is one way that we are being tricked in to being an accomplice after the fact to something God considers a crime.

If you follow the link in the article you will see that for the MMR there are no options that don't come from WI-38 which sadly was developed from an aborted 3 month old girl.

[crgfstr1]

The greater risk might be the interference of the government in your parenting rights, if they learn that you are avoiding vaccinating your children, and some social worker thinks that this constitutes neglect on your part.

This too me is a sign that the beast system is rearing its ugly head in much more powerful ways. I agree with you that there is no sin in vaccinating your kids it if were merely a safe medical procedure. 1) It isn't safe. To say that it is safer if I poison my child more slowly and it will probably be okay is one concern. 2) My biggest concern is that no abortion, no vaccine. We haven't started over and created new vaccines that don't come from the original aborted tissue. I believe this would be possible today due to modern advances but it hasn't been done because the scientific community does not object to abortion and thinks that would be silly.

The one good news in this is it is further reason to home school the kids which is best for many other reasons too.

[jaydam]

1) It isn't safe.

This is uncertain. Thus, the thread.

To say that it is safer if I poison my child more slowly and it will probably be okay is one concern.

I see plenty of Christian families poisoning their kids slowly with fast food and sugar as well. The science behind the negative impact of such food items is much stronger than vaccination speculation.

2) My biggest concern is that no abortion, no vaccine. We haven't started over and created new vaccines that don't come from the original aborted tissue. I believe this would be possible today due to modern advances but it hasn't been done because the scientific community does not object to abortion and thinks that would be silly.

I wonder how many things we would have to abstain from if we believed we were morally responsible for related, but indirect to us, moral actions...

Do you pay taxes? Support Hollywood by watching movies? Buy products made essentially by sweatshop/slave labor?

As I admitted, I have not looked into the fetus/vaccine issue much, but if it does trace back to two abortions in the 1960's I am not certain I am to abstain from good brought out of evil.

When I was in the Army, evidently some of the treatment we use on hypothermic solders was pioneered by Nazi experiments on the Jews. Does that mean I do not use the treatment because of what it came out of?

I cannot say I stand certain on my position. These are just my initial thoughts.

[Singalphile]

I've never had occasion to really concern myself with this issue. I had some vaccinations as a kid, like most people my age or younger, I guess. If vaccines were produced by ongoing abortions and sold by abortion providers, I would find it very hard to approve any use of them myself. Apparently, that's not the case. The details of the abortions in that article (a few posts back) aren't stated. In any case, I guess that various technologies or practices have come about because of some immoral activity decades ago.

[TheEditor]

The problem is that the initial creation of the vaccine was done on aborted tissue. All follow on vaccines are from that first strain and would not exist without that first aborted tissue.

I would have to agree with Jaydam's take. If you start down this road, there probably isn't anything you could do, watch, buy, etc. without there being the taint of sin. By the way, since merchandising was mentioned, I personally feel conscience stricken over the active supporting of slave labor by shopping at your cheap box-store of choice. Unfortunately, due to the fact that I am not gainfully employed, I find it next to impossible to "buy around" these stores.

Regards, Brenden.

[Paidion]

When I was a child, the school automatically vaccinated every child against smallpox, polio, etc. I had never heard of any parent objecting. Throughout my life, I received vaccinations (I am now 77). I still receive annually a vaccination against influenza. None of the vaccinations have ever given me a disease or caused me any problems whatever.

A number of diseases were almost eliminated from society because of vaccinations. The problem with "choice" is that when children and/or adults are not vaccinated, the bacteria which cause these diseases re-enter society, and evolve into a form which is resistant to vaccines.