DACA

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dwight92070
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Re: DACA

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:01 am

About 60% of the U.S. budget goes for government "kindness", i.e. entitlements, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and now Obamacare ( a huge drain, in fact I believe the 60% doesn't even include Obamacare). You've heard the phrase "kill them with kindness". The government is bankrupting our economy and our country with so-called kindness, to the tune of 20+ Trillion dollars. That is
$20,000,000,000,000 in debt. Now you would have us throw more money at these illegals? Where does it stop? When does it end? Don't we realize we are spending our country right into the ground? We cannot continue this course without dire consequences.
The government subsidizes housing (46 billion),school meals , art (146 million), 24% of all abortions, Public Broadcasting Service, Light Rail here in Denver and I am sure in other cities, Aids research, Amtrak, foreign aid. The government subsidizes solar panels, wind turbines, and hybrid cars. All of these are done in the name of "kindness". Now they want to soak us for even more money to stop climate change and global warming, in the name of kindness. It's a lie and a hoax.

Please, U.S. government, stop "helping" us. You are killing us and destroying our country.

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robbyyoung
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Re: DACA

Post by robbyyoung » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:30 am

Hello Dwight,

Your conflation of man's laws and God's demands on Christians as equal is not only wrong but contradictory to your own assertions. For example, you quote Romans 13:1-7 as your standard for justice on the DACA issue. The first two verses state:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
Therefore, the government you praise and are to be in subjection to says, DACA gets a 6 month reprieve so that Congress can apply a permanent solution. But are you not in violation of Paul's message to NOT RESIST what God has appointed. So forget about Obama, you are to respect the wishes of the current President and Congress, right? You also said:
Just because Obama and the Democrats violated our laws in not only allowing them to come, but furthered aggravated their crime by allowing them to stay here, does not mean that we cannot now still enforce our laws.
True. But, the administration did end DACA. However, if Congress provides a pathway for the affected, you are to NOT RESIST; because, it will be the law of the land. So do you really put man's laws in high esteem over your Christian duties and responsibilities? No you DON'T. In your own words you said:
When the government practices "kindness", we get open borders, gay marriage, reparations, Social Security, unemployment checks, food stamps, women in combat, homosexuals in the military, abortion at any stage, affirmative action, welfare, men using women's bathrooms and vice-versa, and more entitlements etc.
But I thought you said Romans 13:1-7 is the standard. Isn't gay marriage, unemployment, food stamps, women in combat, gays in the military, abortion, etc. the LAW OF THE LAND? Why do you resist this authority appointed by God? Will you incur judgment for doing so? Our Christian duty has a clear an established dichotomy:
...render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s (Matt 22:21)
Romans 13:1-7 conflates with Matt 22:21 in respect to:
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad ... for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.
As Congress now acts on the DACA situation, you and I are to respect the process and show nothing but God's love, in words and deeds, to the affected. If BY LAW the affected are given a pathway to citizenship, are these appointed servants of God now evil for showing compassion and mercy? Again, your own words:
Kindness and compassion are not the job of the government. It's job is justice. By and large, it's individuals who should show kindness and compassion, especially those of us who are Christians
Well if our government renders justice as a pathway to citizenship, by law, I hope your kindness and compassion will be upon the affected, as it should have been all the while.

Christians are to practice civil disobedience to anything that contradicts the things of God. So what will be your argument in the end? As for myself, all my eggs are in God's basket, not Caesar's. But its always a blessings when man meets God's standards when governing, not the other way around.

Blessings.

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robbyyoung
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:23 am

Re: DACA

Post by robbyyoung » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:03 am

dwight92070 wrote:About 60% of the U.S. budget goes for government "kindness", i.e. entitlements, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and now Obamacare ( a huge drain, in fact I believe the 60% doesn't even include Obamacare). You've heard the phrase "kill them with kindness". The government is bankrupting our economy and our country with so-called kindness, to the tune of 20+ Trillion dollars. That is
$20,000,000,000,000 in debt. Now you would have us throw more money at these illegals? Where does it stop? When does it end? Don't we realize we are spending our country right into the ground? We cannot continue this course without dire consequences.
The government subsidizes housing (46 billion),school meals , art (146 million), 24% of all abortions, Public Broadcasting Service, Light Rail here in Denver and I am sure in other cities, Aids research, Amtrak, foreign aid. The government subsidizes solar panels, wind turbines, and hybrid cars. All of these are done in the name of "kindness". Now they want to soak us for even more money to stop climate change and global warming, in the name of kindness. It's a lie and a hoax.

Please, U.S. government, stop "helping" us. You are killing us and destroying our country.
Dwight, you are devoting a lot of time and energy on factors that are beyond your control. Hear the Word of God:
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
— Romans 13:1
Jesus answered [speaking to Pilate], “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above.”
— John 19:11
By me kings reign…
— Proverbs 8:15
…he removes kings, and sets up kings…
— Daniel 2:21
…the Most High has power over human kingdoms. He gives them to whomever he wishes.
— Daniel 4:17
The king’s heart is like a stream of water directed by the LORD; he guides it wherever he pleases.
— Proverbs 21:1
As Christians, we are to be reminded of this pitfall:
Mark 4:18-19
And others are the ones on whom seed was sown among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, but the worries of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
-- Mark 4:18-19
Moreover, Paul then emphasises to Timothy that a good soldier of Christ will not entangle himself in the affairs of everyday life so that he may please the one who has enlisted him:
No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier.
-- 2 Timothy 2:4
Therefore, we should stay focused on doing the will of God, thereby pleasing Him who has called us, and leave the things that belong to God in His hands.

Blessings.

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Paidion
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Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: DACA

Post by Paidion » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:49 am

Dwight wrote:The government is bankrupting our economy and our country with so-called kindness, to the tune of 20+ Trillion dollars. That is
$20,000,000,000,000 in debt. Now you would have us throw more money at these illegals? Where does it stop? When does it end? Don't we realize we are spending our country right into the ground? We cannot continue this course without dire consequences.
The huge government debt has not resulted from its assistance to individuals or people groups. It has arisen from a money system that is based on debt. If all the money in the country were applied to the national debt, there would be no money at all for people to buy needed goods and services, and the country would still be deeply in debt.

Government assistance is a drop in the bucket, and ceasing this assistance would do nothing to alleviate the debt.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

steve7150
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Re: DACA

Post by steve7150 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:41 pm

It has arisen from a money system that is based on debt.









The debt is not because of a money system, it's like any other budget that spends more then it takes in. Plus the debt is mostly because of assistance programs of various kinds, not just welfare per se. The problem is that once you give people stuff, it's very hard to take it away.

steve7150
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:44 am

Re: DACA

Post by steve7150 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:56 pm

The debt is not because of a money system, it's like any other budget that spends more then it takes in










`Debt gets created when the U.S. Treasury issues bonds or bills and borrows funds from the buyers of this newly created debt like China who we owe 9 trillion to or Japan or other countries. Recently the Federal Reserve bought 4.7 trillion from the U.S. Treasury debt and so lent the U.S. Treasury this 4.7 trillion, but where did the Federal Reserve get their 4.7 trillion from? They printed it out of thin air and apparently it didn't negatively effect our Dollar, yet! So what if the Federal Reserve just printed another 15.3 trillion and bought up all of the U.S. Treasury debt?

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dwight92070
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Re: DACA

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:52 pm

robbyyoung,

I could answer your last post but obviously we are going to continue to disagree, so there's no need to further the discussion. You have your opinion and I have mine. Let's leave it at that.

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Paidion
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Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: DACA

Post by Paidion » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:41 pm

The money system is based on debt. If no one borrowed any money, there would not be enough money in existence for people to buy needed goods and services.
When you borrow money from a charted bank, the money is created on the spot. Chartered banks cannot loan the depositors' money. But if you borrow, say $100,000 the bank simply writes that amount into your account, and ipso facto! The money comes into existence. When you repay the amount, it goes out of existence again.

I invite you to look at this simple explanation based on 5 men who are shipwrecked on an island, how they exchanged goods (true wealth) and the disaster that occurred when they realized that they needed money as a medium of exchange:

http://www.realnews247.com/money_myth_exploded.htm
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

steve7150
Posts: 2597
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:44 am

Re: DACA

Post by steve7150 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:57 pm

The money system is based on debt. If no one borrowed any money, there would not be enough money in existence for people to buy needed goods and services.
When you borrow money from a charted bank, the money is created on the spot. Chartered banks cannot loan the depositors' money. But if you borrow, say $100,000 the bank simply writes that amount into your account, and ipso facto! The money comes into existence. When you repay the amount, it goes out of existence again









I'll read your example Paidion but here in the USA the money supply increases every month because the Federal Reserve prints the money as it sees fit and distributes it to banks who may or may not lend it out. When loans are repaid the money does not go out of existence, it remains as part of the money supply and the money supply always grows. If it grows to fast it can create or exasperate inflation.

MMathis
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 11:15 am

Re: DACA

Post by MMathis » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:23 pm

Getting back to the OP question.

No non-citizen should ever receive a dime of taxpayer money.
Our kids graduate college in debt and a non-citizen gets a free ride to buy votes for the left.

And they don't want just "dreamers" to have citizenship. If you saw Nancy P being shouted down, they want all 11 million.
Probably more like 20 million and them come the relatives still in Mexico.

I think we should have the same immigration policy as Mexico. I'd vote for that.
MMathis
Las Vegas NV

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