Right vs. Left

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dwight92070
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Re: Right vs. Left

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:13 pm

Just looked it up. Some guy named Nolan came up with a political chart which was diamond-shaped in the 1960's. It's a similar pattern to the circle. But in either one, the chart implies just what Darrin said - that if you go too far to the right, you'll end up left. But there's no evidence or research to prove that. It is just the opinion of the creator of the chart.

The same is true with the evolutionary chart, starting with a tadpole or whatever, progressing to an ape, and eventually - a man! Wow, evolution must be true! The chart proves it!

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Paidion
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Re: Right vs. Left

Post by Paidion » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:29 pm

Dwight wrote:Looking up Hitler in The Encyclopedia Americana, written in 1955, there is no mention of him being a right-winger, much less an extreme right-winger. So if this was common knowledge in the 1930's, why wouldn't they have included that in 1955? Oh, I know, wikipedia wasn't around back then. True, there also was no mention of Hitler being a left-winger either.
According to Smithsonian.com,
...papers [during Hitler's time] ranging from the New York Tribune to the Cleveland Plain Dealer to the Chicago Tribune credited it [the Nazi regime] with saving Italy from the far left and revitalizing its economy.
[Bracketed words of explanation mine]

If Hitler had been considered to be far left in his day, then why would the newspapers of his day credit his regime with saving Italy from the far left?
Paidion

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dwight92070
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Re: Right vs. Left

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:34 pm

I would like to see those quotes from those papers and the dates, please.

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Paidion
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Re: Right vs. Left

Post by Paidion » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:45 pm

Certainly. Here is a link to the site. Read the second paragraph under the heading, "A leader for life":

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/h ... 180961407/
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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dwight92070
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Re: Right vs. Left

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:32 pm

If what you are saying is true, then you do make a good point. However, you still did not quote the newspapers referred to. Rather you quote the smithsonian.com and their interpretation of what they say was in those papers. We are not allowed to judge for ourselves what those newspapers said, because no quotes are given. So, being "saved from the far left" are the words used by the smithsonian in 2016, not a direct quote from any of the papers. This appears to be a commentary by the smithsonian, so we can't know for sure if the newspapers actually said that or not.

Anyway, as is often the case, I think we must agree to disagree.

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dwight92070
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Re: Right vs. Left

Post by dwight92070 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:53 am

I suspect that the terms "right" and "left" are fairly recent terms, that maybe they weren't used back in the time of Hitler. Maybe someone can show me otherwise. I would welcome examples of that. Also, the political spectrum charts - I suspect they are also not that old. If that is true, then they become a commentary of the political scene by the creator of the chart, not evidence that their analysis is correct.

By today's understanding of the "left", I believe both Hitler and Mussolini would fit solidly in that category. The Left wants a large government with much control. Who can deny that Hitler and Mussolini wanted that and had that? In fact, the Left loves dictators. They loved Castro and Che Guevara. They praised them and still do. They love the Communist form of government, so much so, that many in our land have actually become Communists, or should we use the more polite term, Socialists. The ultimate large government and the ultimate control is a dictatorship. To get that kind of control, violence was used. To keep that kind of control, threat of violence, persecution, and intimidation is used. Also, in the case of Hitler, racism was used. We have just described the modern-day leftist.

The Right, by today's understanding, wants a small, limited government, that will not be allowed to tightly control the masses. The founders wanted this. They wanted to keep the government under the control of the people, not the other way around. Hitler and Mussolini did not want this type of government. They did not want to allow the people freedom of speech and religion. They did not want them to have freedom of assembly. So, by today's understanding of the Right, how could they possibly be considered on the Right?

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dwight92070
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Re: Right vs. Left

Post by dwight92070 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:09 am

Correction: My suspicion about political spectrum charts is primarily directed towards the circle charts, not the straight-line ones. I can understand the thinking on the straight-line charts, but not the circular ones.

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darinhouston
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Right vs. Left

Post by darinhouston » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:51 pm

The terms go back very far but seem to have carried a variety of meanings.

Here are a couple interesting articles

'https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left–ri ... l_spectrum'

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatl ... le/373139/


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dwight92070
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Re: Right vs. Left

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:57 pm

The Left:
Denigrates America's motives, it's influence and it's national character.
Apologizes for our country around the world.
Blames the Middle East tensions on our country.
Claims we're a country filled with racists and Islamophobes.
Claims the police are predators.
Believes our country needs to be "fundamentally changed".
Befriends America's harshest critics.
Believes our founders were just old misguided white men.
Claims to love America, but they sure don't admire it much.
Doesn't like the origins of our country.
Doesn't like the Constitution of our country.
Wants us to humble ourselves before a disapproving world.
Wants us to stop being concerned about who crosses our borders.
Wants us to equate Israel with the evil Hamas and Hezbollah.
Wants us to strangle our businesses with a fifteen-dollar minimum wage.
Wants us to shake down our wealthy and redistribute their earnings to others.
Wants us to shred and rewrite our Constitution to reflect modern progressive ideals.

We must continue to give the Left a resounding "NO!"

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Paidion
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Re: Right vs. Left

Post by Paidion » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:09 pm

Hitler denigrated both left-wing and right-wing politicians. Here is a translation of Hitler's exact words:
Hitler wrote:Today our left-wing politicians in particular are constantly insisting that their craven-hearted and obsequious foreign policy necessarily results from the disarmament of Germany, whereas the truth is that this is the policy of traitors ... But the politicians of the Right deserve exactly the same reproach. It was through their miserable cowardice that those ruffians of Jews who came into power in 1918 were able to rob the nation of its arms.
Hitler, Adolf, Mein Kampf, Bottom of the Hill Publishing, 2010. p. 287.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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