Contradiction, Metaphor, or Mistranslation

Post Reply
User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Contradiction, Metaphor, or Mistranslation

Post by Paidion » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:09 pm

23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."
24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
25,26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:23-26 NKJV)
Verses 23 and 24 are addressing the resurrection of Lazarus. So Jesus seems to be talking about the physical death and resurrection of Lazarus. In Jesus final words to her, He says, "He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." Again, Jesus seems to be speaking of physical death and resurrection. Four times in John 6, Jesus speaks of raising his own at the last day. Here is one of those: "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day." So Jesus' words to Martha seem to say that if a person who believes in Him dies, he will live again, that is be raised to life. But then He says, " And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die." But He has just talked about those who believe in Him and DO die—that they will live again. It is also obvious that everyone born since Jesus' day until about the year 1900 has died whether they believe in Him or not. So the latter words appear to be not only a contradiction, but to be a false statement in itself.

Of course, one could say that the latter words speak of death metaphorically, that they either speak of "death" in the sense of ceasing to exist—that those who believe in Jesus will never cease to exist, or that they will never die in the sense of "being dead in trespasses and sins." But the two sentences are so closely linked that it seems odd that our Lord would use the word "die" in a physical sense in the first sentence, and in a metaphorical sense in the second.

Of course, one could take the position that "die" is used metaphorically in the first sentence as well. But then that also seems odd since Jesus and Martha are speaking of Lazarus' literal death and his literal resurrection to life again.

I am going to suggest the possibility of a mistranslation. Jesus' second sentence could be literally translated from the Greek: "Everyone who lives and believes in me (or 'entrusts [himself] into me') will not die into the age." Possibly "the age" refers to the next age after the present one. To say that those entrusting themselves to Christ will not "die into the next age" may mean that they will not continue in a state of death right into the next age, but will be raised to life again when Jesus returns (the beginning of the next age). If this is the meaning, then Jesus is just reinforcing the truth that those who entrust themselves to Him will be resurrected, by stating that fact in a somewhat different way.

I invite your thoughts.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

dizerner

Re: Contradiction, Metaphor, or Mistranslation

Post by dizerner » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:50 pm

Seems rather similar to:

Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.

Jesus seems to have no problem mixing physical reality with spiritual metaphor.

If you're hung up with aionios I recommend Rotherham's translation, it's free online, and I recommend the PDF version because it shows emphasis.

Rotherham's always translates aionios as age. It has been my main translation for over a decade now.

User avatar
steve
Posts: 3392
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:45 pm

Re: Contradiction, Metaphor, or Mistranslation

Post by steve » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:45 am

Paidion,

I agree with what dizerner wrote above. I would also suggest another possibility, which I do not necessarily advocate—namely, the two clauses describe chronologically subsequent phenomena. That is:

Whoever believes in me,[in this life] though he dies, yet will he live [returning to life in the final resurrection] and

Whoever lives [that is, after the resurrection] and believes in me shall never die [not again, that is, having been raise immortal].

I have heard this suggested. I don't necessarily favor it (since I have generally seen it as dizerner does), but I can't deny its plausibility.

User avatar
Homer
Posts: 2995
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: Contradiction, Metaphor, or Mistranslation

Post by Homer » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:45 am

For those who can see that aiona might actually be translated "forever" in this case, the difficulty is removed.

From Newberry's translation in the interlinear by George Ricker Berry:

"and whoever lives and believes on me, in no wise shall die forever."

Makes perfect sense of the context.

User avatar
steve
Posts: 3392
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:45 pm

Re: Contradiction, Metaphor, or Mistranslation

Post by steve » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:04 am

Yes, Homer's suggestion works also.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Contradiction, Metaphor, or Mistranslation

Post by Paidion » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:12 pm

Thank you Steve, for you input.

Concerning Homer's suggestion, I agree that this may be a good translation: "will in no wise die forever"—that is, will not remain dead, but will be raised to life. I have considered this translation in the past as a possibility. Indeed, it's implication amounts to much the same as my suggestion (as I should have written it) "will no way die into the age." That implication is that he who entrusts himself to Jesus will be raised to life.

Dizerner, I'm not hung up on anything. Like many others who post in this forum, I continue to seek truth and reality, sharing my thoughts with others, and expecting to learn from them. That is the reason I raised the issue.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

dizerner

Re: Contradiction, Metaphor, or Mistranslation

Post by dizerner » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:37 pm

Paidion wrote:Dizerner, I'm not hung up on anything. Like many others who post in this forum, I continue to seek truth and reality, sharing my thoughts with others, and expecting to learn from them. That is the reason I raised the issue.
Okay.

Post Reply

Return to “Miscellaneous”