Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Discuss topics raised by callers on the radio program
jpat1975
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:14 am

Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Post by jpat1975 » Sat May 23, 2015 10:00 am

Question: What is your opinion about Islam's possible role in the "end times"? Realistically how much impact could they have on the world - overseas and here. Is there any cause for concern for North American's to wake up one day with a black flag flying here, and people in masks running to and fro cutting off heads on our streets? I can't see it happening here. If anything people are becoming less religious and more secular. There's no way they could take over here - especially now that they are portrayed as barbarians in the news. The only way they could is maybe if they make up the majority of the population. Even then, plenty of army and police to put down an uprising, no matter how many there are. So no, I can't see it happening. The most I could see is ISIS taking over the middle east and becoming more organized and emerging into a world superpower with their fingers hovering the buttons of weapons of mass destruction, giving them leverage to influence world affairs. Does this scenario fit into what is presented in Revelation about saints being beheaded. I think to some degree we're already beginning to see that in the middle east and africa. It's been a reality in those areas for quite some time it would seem.

Finally have you read this book? It lays out an interesting take on Revelation and Islam, quite scary...

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... /index.htm

steve7150
Posts: 2597
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:44 am

Re: Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Post by steve7150 » Sat May 23, 2015 12:58 pm

I doubt Dispensationalism is correct but i think it's possible Islam is the beast of Rev 17 since those lands mentioned are Islamic now. Islam may be the beast now and the RCC the beast of Rev 13 and possibly Nero earlier.
But regardless what is there to be scared about? It's in God hands and we know Jesus wins!

dwilkins
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:54 pm

Re: Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Post by dwilkins » Sun May 24, 2015 8:16 am

steve7150 wrote:I doubt Dispensationalism is correct but i think it's possible Islam is the beast of Rev 17 since those lands mentioned are Islamic now. Islam may be the beast now and the RCC the beast of Rev 13 and possibly Nero earlier.
But regardless what is there to be scared about? It's in God hands and we know Jesus wins!
I wish I had this post to quote back when we were debating whether or not eschatology matters, or whether it affects how people live their lives.

Associating Islam with the Beast of Rev. 17 would surely be novel for Christian doctrine. In Historicist writings they were associated with the seven trumpets but not the seven bowls. As Dispensationalism gets bored with repeated expectations of various 40 year measurements based on events in modern Israel, and as Muslims cut off more and more heads, I do think an Islam-centric eschatology will take shape over the next 100 years. There will be a good reason for this because they will continue to be successful until we either chose to start fighting them as a group or completely cut them off from the western economy. Sitting on our hands because it's all in God's hands and Jesus wins in the end will ensure their success. But, there is no reason to think that they have anything at all to do with eschatology as it's described in scripture.

Doug

steve7150
Posts: 2597
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:44 am

Re: Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Post by steve7150 » Sun May 24, 2015 9:14 am

Sitting on our hands because it's all in God's hands and Jesus wins in the end will ensure their success










Their success in taking over the world? My friend it is in God's hands and Jesus does win. As to fighting them in the interim i think all of us have expressed our views here on Christian Pacifism and exactly how to define it.
I have expressed my view that we don't have the right to sacrifice other peoples lives even if we are willing to sacrifice our own. So self sefense and police are legitimate things in this world but other folks have other opinions.

dwilkins
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:54 pm

Re: Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Post by dwilkins » Sun May 24, 2015 3:06 pm

I probably disagree with you about reasonable steps to counter Islam. But, that wasn't my point. My point was that eschatology matters. Your eschatology drives how you see history unfolding and what you think your role in it is. To say "Jesus wins!" and wait for the rapture will result in a certain worldview.

Doug

steve7150
Posts: 2597
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:44 am

Re: Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Post by steve7150 » Sun May 24, 2015 6:42 pm

My point was that eschatology matters. Your eschatology drives how you see history unfolding and what you think your role in it is. To say "Jesus wins!" and wait for the rapture will result in a certain worldview.










My eschatology may impact how i see history unfolding but i also am cognizant that my eschatology could be wrong so i'm not dogmatic about it. It's not a burning issue for me. I do see Jesus winning since he is the Savior of the world, that's how i see him winning. As far as a rapture it may happen tomorrow or in a thousand years , so right now i'm just waiting for the NY Rangers to play game 5.

User avatar
TheEditor
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:09 pm

Re: Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Post by TheEditor » Sun May 24, 2015 7:32 pm

There will be a good reason for this because they will continue to be successful until we either chose to start fighting them as a group or completely cut them off from the western economy. Sitting on our hands because it's all in God's hands and Jesus wins in the end will ensure their success. . . .

Your eschatology drives how you see history unfolding and what you think your role in it is. To say "Jesus wins!" and wait for the rapture will result in a certain worldview.


I don't have the same faith in the counter-eschatology to Dispensationalism that you do Doug. I am not a Dispensationalist anymore. Nor a rigid Futurist. Nor a rigid Preterist. All rigid views become untenable at some point. The Catholics tried to convert the world by sword, which, is somewhat consistent with certain eschatological views, wouldn't you say Doug? What was the old phrase "In for a penny, in for a pound"? Why not spread Christianity by the sword then?

Regards, Benden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

dwilkins
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:54 pm

Re: Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Post by dwilkins » Sun May 24, 2015 9:39 pm

It's impossible to convert with the sword because it takes honest personal persuasion to become converted. But, your example is another one that I'd point to in order to prove the point that a person's eschatology affects how they act in the world. In this case, hoping to be raptured is not a good counter to the aggressiveness of Islam.

Doug

User avatar
TheEditor
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:09 pm

Re: Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Post by TheEditor » Sun May 24, 2015 9:46 pm

What would be?
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

User avatar
robbyyoung
Posts: 811
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:23 am

Re: Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

Post by robbyyoung » Sun May 24, 2015 10:15 pm

TheEditor wrote:What would be?
Hi Brenden,

How about by allowing God's Rulers, government authority, bearing the sword and God's wrath against all evil doers (Rom 13:3-4).

Like it or not, this is what WILL transpire, and has been since man walked the earth. Yes, man seriously botched this office of responsibility up, however, it does not change the validity of this God ordained function.

God bless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Robby Young
U.S. Army Retired

Post Reply

Return to “Radio Program Topics”