Matthew 24

[jarrod]

Thank you for responding! I believe I am beginning to see your rationale on these passages.

However, how are you making the distinction that Luke's account is given on the Temple grounds? Is it because Luke 21:7 simply states:



rather than Matthew 24:3 that says:



I don't believe it is a stretch, especially since each account mirrors each other so precisely, to conclude that "So they asked him" took place after they left the Temple grounds and sat down at the Mount of Olives.

[Priestly1]

As some may know I am classified as a Apostolic or Historic Pre-Millenialist. The arguments over Matthew 24 begin from later post Apostolic "Imperial Church" deviations from this original Eschatological Norm. evenso, Praeteriem (Consistent and Inconsistent) developed during the Western "Imperial" Church's counter-reformation reaction to early "Reformed" and "Evangelical" Protestantism. Both early forms of Dispensationalism and Praeterism developed by two Jesuit Doctors attempts to refute Protestantism's Historist A-Millenial attacks on their former Church as the Great Whore Mystery Babylon and the Patriarch of Rome as the Beast.

Both Jesuit novel A-Millenial models were formally denounced by the Jesuit Fraternity and the Pope Himself. One could not counter Protestantism's attacks with innovations not held by the Church since it's Imperial recognition. So they were recanted and rejected wholesale. Yet by the mid 18th century fringe elements in the Protestant Movement adopted these Jesuit Novelties and adapted them for their own purposes. So what is now various forms of Adventism (Dispensational Pre-Millenialism) and Praeterism (Consistent, Inconsistent and Post-Milenialism) are just modified 17th century Jesuit heresies.

The issue is the meaning of "Genea" as translated "Race, People or Generation." In the Eastern Churches and in the Roman Church....all who hold to A-Millenialism or Historic Pre-Millenialism recognize the natural meaning of "Genea" as 'The Generation of a Father i.e. a Family, Clan, Tribe, people or Nation." It rarely means "contemporaries" as is necessitated by Praeterists. The "Generation of Vipers", or This "Wicked Generation" is used by Christ in the same manner as Genea in the LXX Pentateuch, Prophets and Writings. This "Generation" is the "Generation" of the Stubborn and Stiff necked People God himself railed at in the Torah. No Ancient Church source holds that "genea" refers to Christ's Jewish "contemporaries.

If you see the Eschatological statements of Christ in this light there is no trace of Praeterism or Dispensationalism therein. They are later Isogetical novelties......not demanded by the text, context or language as understood to this day by those who hold to Historic A-Millenialism and speak the very language daily...whether Greek, Syriac or Latin.

The stubborn, stiff necked and wicked generation of Jacob (i.e. unbelieving Israel) will persist to witness the complete fulfillment of all of Christ's Prophecies...and accordingly He will not return until they say,"Blessed is He who comes in the Name of YHVH." And according to the Pentateuch, the Prophets and the Apostles Paul Himself, When they return to their God and Messiah who awaits in Heaven, then shall the resurrection to life happen and Christ will restore all things.

"Therefore, My Brothers! Even now I realize that you have been acting in ignorance, as have your own leaders. But everything that was foretold by God through the mouths of all the Prophets, that the Messiah would suffer, Jesus has fulfilled. So repent and become converts, so that your sins might be wiped away, and so that the Seasons of Renewal may come from the Presence of the LORD Himself. This is so that He might send Jesus the Messiah, who was declared to all of you previously, whom Heaven must keep until the Seasons of Complete Restoration, which God has declared through the mouths of every one of His Holy Prophets since the world came into being." Mar Shimun Kepa (St. Simeon Peter)

"I say then, have they (i.e. This Generation) stumbled so that they might remain fallen? By no means! It is because of their fall, in order to provoke them to envy, that salvation has been brought to the Gentiles. Now if their fall brings wealth for the world, and their failings riches to the Gentiles, how much more wealth will their complete harvest bring?! Now I am speaking to all of you Gentiles. Insofar as I am an emissary to the Gentiles, I increase my ministry, if by any method I may provoke to envy my own blood and rescue some of them. For if their rejection results in the reconciling of the world, what will will their acceptance result in? Why the Resurrection of the Dead of course!" Mar Pa'ulut d'Tarshush (St. Paul of Tarsus)



"Thus the first shall be last and the last shall be first."


rev. Ken Huffman

[mikew]

As some may know I am classified as a Apostolic or Historic Pre-Millenialist. The arguments over Matthew 24 begin from later post Apostolic "Imperial Church" deviations from this original Eschatological Norm. evenso, Praeteriem (Consistent and Inconsistent) developed during the Western "Imperial" Church's counter-reformation reaction to early "Reformed" and "Evangelical" Protestantism. Both early forms of Dispensationalism and Praeterism developed by two Jesuit Doctors attempts to refute Protestantism's Historist A-Millenial attacks on their former Church as the Great Whore Mystery Babylon and the Patriarch of Rome as the Beast.

Both Jesuit novel A-Millenial models were formally denounced by the Jesuit Fraternity and the Pope Himself. One could not counter Protestantism's attacks with innovations not held by the Church since it's Imperial recognition. So they were recanted and rejected wholesale. Yet by the mid 18th century fringe elements in the Protestant Movement adopted these Jesuit Novelties and adapted them for their own purposes. So what is now various forms of Adventism (Dispensational Pre-Millenialism) and Praeterism (Consistent, Inconsistent and Post-Milenialism) are just modified 17th century Jesuit heresies.

The issue is the meaning of "Genea" as translated "Race, People or Generation." In the Eastern Churches and in the Roman Church....all who hold to A-Millenialism or Historic Pre-Millenialism recognize the natural meaning of "Genea" as 'The Generation of a Father i.e. a Family, Clan, Tribe, people or Nation." It rarely means "contemporaries" as is necessitated by Praeterists. The "Generation of Vipers", or This "Wicked Generation" is used by Christ in the same manner as Genea in the LXX Pentateuch, Prophets and Writings. This "Generation" is the "Generation" of the Stubborn and Stiff necked People God himself railed at in the Torah. No Ancient Church source holds that "genea" refers to Christ's Jewish "contemporaries.

If you see the Eschatological statements of Christ in this light there is no trace of Praeterism or Dispensationalism therein. They are later Isogetical novelties......not demanded by the text, context or language as understood to this day by those who hold to Historic A-Millenialism and speak the very language daily...whether Greek, Syriac or Latin.

The stubborn, stiff necked and wicked generation of Jacob (i.e. unbelieving Israel) will persist to witness the complete fulfillment of all of Christ's Prophecies...and accordingly He will not return until they say,"Blessed is He who comes in the Name of YHVH." And according to the Pentateuch, the Prophets and the Apostles Paul Himself, When they return to their God and Messiah who awaits in Heaven, then shall the resurrection to life happen and Christ will restore all things.

"Therefore, My Brothers! Even now I realize that you have been acting in ignorance, as have your own leaders. But everything that was foretold by God through the mouths of all the Prophets, that the Messiah would suffer, Jesus has fulfilled. So repent and become converts, so that your sins might be wiped away, and so that the Seasons of Renewal may come from the Presence of the LORD Himself. This is so that He might send Jesus the Messiah, who was declared to all of you previously, whom Heaven must keep until the Seasons of Complete Restoration, which God has declared through the mouths of every one of His Holy Prophets since the world came into being." Mar Shimun Kepa (St. Simeon Peter)

"I say then, have they (i.e. This Generation) stumbled so that they might remain fallen? By no means! It is because of their fall, in order to provoke them to envy, that salvation has been brought to the Gentiles. Now if their fall brings wealth for the world, and their failings riches to the Gentiles, how much more wealth will their complete harvest bring?! Now I am speaking to all of you Gentiles. Insofar as I am an emissary to the Gentiles, I increase my ministry, if by any method I may provoke to envy my own blood and rescue some of them. For if their rejection results in the reconciling of the world, what will will their acceptance result in? Why the Resurrection of the Dead of course!" Mar Pa'ulut d'Tarshush (St. Paul of Tarsus)



"Thus the first shall be last and the last shall be first."


rev. Ken Huffman

So are you saying that we must rely on tradition rather than scripture or are you able to show from scripture that your perspective is the obvious conclusion?

If scholars are still confounded by the Book of Romans (for example), what areas of teaching and tradition should we therefore put our whole trust?