Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. Verse Tool: show

IHOP in Kansas City

Moderators: darinhouston, joel, steve, jarrod

IHOP in Kansas City

Postby IsaacJ » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:21 am

Hey guys, a super general post here fishing for info:

From three completely separate sources in the last 2 weeks I've heard concern over some things coming out of IHOP in Kansas City. I'm a little familiar with IHOP, but don't follow them close enough to know what's wrong and right with what's going on. The main concerns I've heard so far are. 1. Moral corruption in the leaders (sexual at least.) 2. The encouraging of prophecy without accountability (when wrong.) 3. An unbiblical exercising of the gifts in meetings (as seen on t.v.)

Anyways, I obviously have nothing against the idea of a house of prayer but since this keeps popping up, I wondered if any of you have come across info along these lines. My concern is that I have friends loosely tied to the movement and want to know if there's more information worthy of speaking a warning.

Thank you my friends!
IsaacJ
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:52 am

Re: IHOP in Kansas City

Postby TK » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:29 pm

i have heard about some issues in the past with some of the "kansas city prophets" like Paul Cain, who I believe fell into homosexual sin but was later restored ( i believe). I havent heard anything real recently about CURRENT problems. As far as the exercise of spiritual gifts go, how much you can stand obviously depends on whether you lean more charismatic or more conservative. I think it has always been that way in the charismatic/non-charismatic divide.

I occasionally watch the live online stream of the 24 hr worship at IHOP and I like it. I really like Misty Edwards, one of the worship leaders there. I think she's pretty anointed.

Someone who goes to the church i attend spent a weekend at IHOP a couple of months ago and she was really blessed by it. Of course, I do attend a more charismatic church.

TK
User avatar
TK
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: NE Ohio

Re: IHOP in Kansas City

Postby mattrose » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:45 am

I don't have any personal feedback

But I had 2 classmates that went there and were very disturbed by some of the behind the scenes stuff. These 2 young women were going there expecting to like it, but left early. I consider both of them strong Christians.
User avatar
mattrose
 
Posts: 1254
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:28 am

Re: IHOP in Kansas City

Postby IsaacJ » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:55 pm

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm definitely not anti-charismatic and actually prefer a charismatic environment provided the gifts don't become the focus over Jesus. I believe all of the gifts in scripture are valid for today as well.

I have some of Misty Edwards music as well and really do enjoy it. I know there must be lots of legit believers seeking the Lord in this ministry but I'm hearing more and more concerns about the behind the scenes stuff as well.

Let me know if anyone else has helpful thoughts or info...Again, I already have some concerns I feel I may need to voice to some people I know loosely tied with this ministry...just wanted to know if there was any info any of us have stumbled on that I should know.
IsaacJ
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:52 am

Re: IHOP in Kansas City

Postby TK » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:54 am

I am not sure what the "behind the scenes" stuff is. If I knew what it was, it might give me pause as well. I just don't know.

TK
User avatar
TK
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: NE Ohio

Re: IHOP in Kansas City

Postby johnb » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:12 pm

Hi,
Not sure if I’m actually going to add anything new in this thread but thought I would give it a shot.
We live in the K.C. area and some family and I actually went to the IHOP headquarters here in K.C. for about 2-1/2 years. It’s always interesting to me when spiritual concerns are asked in this area because it usually has to do with one of three groups; the RLDS institution, Unity Village, or IHOP.
I would start by saying I actually like IHOP even though we don’t go there anymore for various reasons. I think they are doing a lot of good things. They have great music (we listen to Misty Edwards too), they encourage a strong and genuine love for Jesus, and there are a lot of younger people involved. However I think some of those good and positive things are mixed up with some questionable actions and teachings…at times (not all the time), some of which have already been mentioned by others in this thread.

The thing that made me start raising an eyebrow was that for a long time (over a year) I could not understand the messages that Mike Bickle preached, and I consider myself fairly acquainted with Scripture. I later learned that this was because there is a lot of language that is used that has a particular meaning for them (e.g. apostolic intercession, Spirit of the Tabernacle of David, Daniel anointing, forerunner ministry, etc…). There is so much of their own particular way of using biblical words and phrases that their web site has a whole “Glossary” and “Acronym” page to help people like me ‘get it’. That’s cool and all but I would rather Scripture give its own meaning to words and phrases with out us adding anything to it. So that started making me wonder what they meant by all those words and phrases which pushed me to research IHOP’s whole background and where they were coming from.

I came across their checkered past which you can find easily on the web. Most of us have a checkered past so that in itself wasn’t real surprising. However one particular story bothered me and it had to do with Bob Jones, one of their more prominent leaders, who apparently used to tell women they needed to be naked to get a ‘word of the Lord’ from him. Of course that is disturbing. Apparently he ended up confessing and repenting of those sins and was asked to step down from his prominent position, which he did. Something that disturbed me just as equally though was that he was allowed to be reestablished into his previous position. That bothers me a lot. I can understand forgiving someone who genuinely wants to be restored in fellowship but allowing a person who abused their leadership role as badly as he did back into that same previous leadership position shows a serious lack of discernment. Needless to say you won’t see my wife or 3 year old daughter in a ‘private conversation’ with him…ever.

Another reason we left was how flippant the use of the gifts of the Spirit were used. By the way I do believe that the gifts of the Spirit are operational today and needed. Quick example – you can sign up for a specific time slot (usually 2-4pm) on particular days (usually Tuesdays and Thursdays) and go into a room with 3-4 people who will prophecy to you. It makes you wonder ‘What if God doesn’t have anything to say until 7:30? Does that mean I just miss what God has to say to me?’

One other big reason we stopped going was because there is such a strong emphasis on a particular end time view and the nation of Israel that if you don’t hold those same views your kinda ‘left behind’. What I mean is almost everything is centered around Jesus returning in this generation which of course means there is a lot of talk about the ‘biggest move of the Holy Spirit in all of history’ and the like. This kind of talk is exciting to young people (by the way, I was 28ish when I went to IHOP) because it’s sounds ‘revolutionary’ and ‘cutting edge’ and ‘new’ and ‘unprecedented’ (they say the word ‘unprecedented’ a lot too), which may be why there are a lot of younger people involved at IHOP. It’s just kind of hard to fellowship sometimes with people who only want to talk about a view that you disagree with. For IHOP, I wish there was more focus on simple discipleship or humbleness or meekness or walking by faith instead of so much unprecedented new movements of God that never seem to land and grow.

They also seem to have had some very similar theology as that of previous movements like the Latter Rain Movement, the Shepherding Movement, and Dominion Theology, however they address this on their website as having nothing to do with those movements. I haven’t been there in a while so I’m not sure if they have washed themselves of those labels or not, but when I was going they certainly seemed to have elements of those movements.

I am hopeful for IHOP. They bring some good things to the table and I hope that the truth and love God would abound in their ministries more that anything.

As far as research goes you can pretty much find everything on the web.
Also the ‘CRI Journal’ had a recent article specifically about Mike Bickle and his ‘end times’ view which was pretty descriptive. I’m sure you could find it on the CRI site.

Blessings
Last edited by johnb on Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
“The Underground Church is a poor and suffering church, but it has few lukewarm members.” - Richard Wurmbrand
johnb
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:58 pm
Location: K.C. MO.

Re: IHOP in Kansas City

Postby TK » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:01 am

Thanks, JohnB.

I think that is a pretty good assessment and is in line with some of the concerns I have as well.

Like you said, its one of those things where you hate to throw the baby out with the bath water. There are a lot of good things happening, mixed in with some things that raise red flags.

I pretty much stick to watching the prayer room archives occasionally and listening to the music. I haven't seen (yet) anything objectionable there.

TK
User avatar
TK
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: NE Ohio

Re: IHOP in Kansas City

Postby IsaacJ » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:26 pm

Thanks for the added thoughts. I'm in total agreement with you guys...not into throwing babies out with bathwater. The positives sides of their ministry continue to stand out as well as a consistency of red-flags and concerns in other parts. I guess we pray the Lord preserves His work there and gently warn people we know involved to be a bit cautious in some areas. Either way, we always have to remember never to give a higher loyalty to a man or movement than to God and the scriptures.

Thanks again for sharing.
IsaacJ
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:52 am

Re: IHOP in Kansas City

Postby Jepne » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:33 pm

Thank you, Johnb. I appreciate your observation of their “. . . own particular way of using biblical words and phrases. . . I would rather Scripture give its own meaning to words and phrases without us adding anything to it.”

I have found this to be a problem with other teachers who otherwise seem to have much to offer.

"I can understand forgiving someone . . . .you won’t see my wife or 3 year old daughter in a ‘private conversation’ with him…ever."

To me, it is not that we should never trust a person in the area in which they were once weak, as I have been fallen in many areas of my life, but it has recently been made necessary for me to recall that it is important when two of the opposite sex are in counsel, to always have the door ajar and other people around. That just takes good care of that.

Thank you again - Jepne
User avatar
Jepne
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:08 pm


Return to Teachers, Authors, and Movements

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest