(an) lds on: The Atonement (unplugged).

[Jill]

.

[Paidion]

"... and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." He said this to show by what death he was to die. John 12:32,33

From this passage, it is obvious that it was when Jesus was lifted up onto the cross that He began to draw all people to Himself.

[Jill]

.

[darinhouston]

Couldn't this mean after he was surely made dead. Translation.

That's how I've always read it, but looking at the passage now, it would appear somehow that it does relate to the "manner" in which He was to die, which does seem to relate to the cross and being "raised" on it off the earth. Maybe this was a "figure of speech" that is lost to us? I don't know what else "by what death" could refer to. It's sort of an odd expression I've never noticed before, but all the translations seem to support Paidion's point, I think, especially NLT.

Available Translations and Versions for John 12:33

KJV
This he said, signifying what death he should die.
© Info

NKJV
This He said, signifying by what death He would die.
© Info

NLT
He said this to indicate how he was going to die.
© Info

NIV
He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
© Info

ESV
He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.
© Info

RVR
Y decía esto dando a entender de qué muerte iba a morir.
© Info

NASB
But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.
© Info

RSV
He said this to show by what death he was to die.
© Info

ASV
But this he said, signifying by what manner of death he should die.
© Info

YNG
And this he said signifying by what death he was about to die;
© Info

DBY
But this he said signifying by what death he was about to die.
© Info

WEB
(This he said, signifying what death he should die.)
© Info

HNV
But he said this, signifying by what kind of death he should die.

[Jill]

.

[Jill]

.

[Jill]

.

[Jill]

.

[RND]

Couldn't this mean after he was surely made dead. Translation.

No. In the wilderness Moses lifted a "serpent" on a pole for the COI to look at and be "cured." Likewise, when Jesus was "lifted up" He became that "sin" that was represented in the serpent Moses lifted.

2 Cor 5:21 For he (God the Father) hath made him (Jesus Christ) [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

When we look upon the cross we to are changed, when we look earnestly upon His sacrifice and His love we can not help but be changed, "cured" in other words.

[TK]

From Oswald Chambers:

December 8, 2008
The Impartial Power of God

By one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified —Hebrews 10:14

We trample the blood of the Son of God underfoot if we think we are forgiven because we are sorry for our sins. The only reason for the forgiveness of our sins by God, and the infinite depth of His promise to forget them, is the death of Jesus Christ. Our repentance is merely the result of our personal realization of the atonement by the Cross of Christ, which He has provided for us. ". . . Christ Jesus . . . became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption . . ." ( 1 Corinthians 1:30 ). Once we realize that Christ has become all this for us, the limitless joy of God begins in us. And wherever the joy of God is not present, the death sentence is still in effect.

No matter who or what we are, God restores us to right standing with Himself only by means of the death of Jesus Christ. God does this, not because Jesus pleads with Him to do so but because He died. It cannot be earned, just accepted. All the pleading for salvation which deliberately ignores the Cross of Christ is useless. It is knocking at a door other than the one which Jesus has already opened. We protest by saying, "But I don’t want to come that way. It is too humiliating to be received as a sinner." God’s response, through Peter, is, ". . . there is no other name . . . by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12 ). What at first appears to be heartlessness on God’s part is actually the true expression of His heart. There is unlimited entrance His way. "In Him we have redemption through His blood . . ." ( Ephesians 1:7 ). To identify with the death of Jesus Christ means that we must die to everything that was never a part of Him.

God is just in saving bad people only as He makes them good. Our Lord does not pretend we are all right when we are all wrong. The atonement by the Cross of Christ is the propitiation God uses to make unholy people holy.