The Narrow Path Ministries

Hey Padion,

Your right that is an easy point of confusion. I think it comes from the shift in perspective. Correct me if I'm wrong but for you there is only one possible god. So the idea believe exists or believe does not exist seems like a true dichotomy. For me the dichotomy is believe does exist or do not believe does exist.

Part of this comes from the realization that there are many ideas about Gods and that they are often labeled identically though they are not the same.

The philosophical terms I hear are strong and weak atheists. Strong indicates a belief that god does not exist. Weak indicates the lack of belief in god.

Things get messy though because positions are based on the specific idea. For me there is no single god I don't believe in. I don't believe in all of them. In some cases, like literal bible god, I am pretty sure it does not exist. However it may be there is some kind of deistic universe creator god and it is even possible I'm wrong about bible god.

Weak atheism is also often called agnostic atheism. My position is a blend of this and igtheism which is the belief that the word god refers to an incoherent idea. One which may not be possible to clearly define. This is why I generally try to feel out what a believer means by the word god before I get too far into things.

Well, I use the word "God" to denote the Creator of the Universe, and I see this Creator as one God only. Even if I believed nothing in the Bible, I think I would still believe in a unique, personal Creator.

But you are right. A classic atheist believes in no God or gods. The word "agnostic" literally means "not knowing." I think word should apply to those who hold no firm position on the existence or not existence of God or gods. They don't have any belief concerning the matter, although they might lean toward theism or atheism.

I saw the great philosopher, Bertrand Russel, on television many years ago when he was in his nineties. He was asked whether he saw any possibility whatever that God, the Creator of the Universe might exist. He responded, "Yes. About the same likelihood that Zeus or Hercules exists."

By the way, it's not "Padion"; It's "Paidion", pronounced "Pie-dee-on" with the accent on the second syllable.

Paidion wrote:But you are right. A classic atheist believes in no God or gods. The word "agnostic" literally means "not knowing." I think word should apply to those who hold no firm position on the existence or not existence of God or gods. They don't have any belief concerning the matter, although they might lean toward theism or atheism.

The thing is, as an atheist I hold multiple positions based on which god idea is being discussed. I'm a Gnostic atheist in regards to Thor, for instance. I'm pretty sure that is not at all a real being. I'm more agnostic for the idea of the universe creator. I don't know that the universe needs a creator, or even that the idea of time before the universe is a coherent concept. As a general rule when I refer to agnostic, or gnostic thinking they are adjectives that apply to atheist or theist and denote a level of certainty or conviction. By the definition of atheism most of us embrace, a person who lacks belief in any god, agnostics as you use the term would be atheists.

As a general rule though I try not to stress about labels. Some people identify as agnostic and do not want to be called atheist. Some atheists call themselves agnostic, or skeptical because they are concerned about social consequences associated with open atheism. I'm more interested in what people think than getting a label onto them.

Paidion wrote: I saw the great philosopher, Bertrand Russel, on television many years ago when he was in his nineties. He was asked whether he saw any possibility whatever that God, the Creator of the Universe might exist. He responded, "Yes. About the same likelihood that Zeus or Hercules exists."

I have a few of his books, the man was an amazing thinker.

Paidion wrote: By the way, it's not "Padion"; It's "Paidion", pronounced "Pie-dee-on" with the accent on the second syllable.

Sorry, I was rushing out as I finished lunch, and didn't double check my spelling.