Is the Bible the Word of God??!!

[_loaves]

Hi everyone. The questions was if you thought the Bible was the Word of God. One of my pet peeves is using “Bible” and “The Word of God” interchangeable. From my understanding Jesus is the Word of God (capitol “W”). (John 1:1, Revelation 19:13, etc.). Yes, I know the Bible in its original form was wholly inspired by God. (2 Tim. 3:16) But would it be proper for us to use “Bible” (God’s written word; a book) and “Jesus” (the Word of God, capitol “W”) transposably (is that a word)? What do you think?

And about the poll. If you had to make a choice between the two, which congregation would you sooner attend? ("Neither" is not an option). Assuming everyone could attend, would you sooner go to a Roman Catholic mass, or an Old Order Amish meeting?

Agape,

loaves

[Guest]

Jesus is the Word made flesh so i don't think it's exactly the same thing. Certainly many things in the OT have been superceeded by Jesus's teachings which are the final revelation and trump the OT. The OT is important and a necessary foundation but part of a work in progress that had to be completed in Jesus himself.
Btw what is the "Old Order Amish" vs Amish? I thought the more modern Amish became Mennonites.

[Guest]

When you look up the Greek word "logos" in a lexicon, you find many meanings listed. But perhaps the most basic meaning is "expression" (in the sense of a person expressing himself).

Sometimes in church, someone may say, "Brother Joe has a word for us today." That means that Joe is going to express himself to the group gathered.

God expressed Himself to the prophets of old. So we read that "the word of God came to Isaiah."

In the book of Acts, the phrase "the word of God" refers to the gospel that the apostles proclaimed. The gospel is the chief word of God to man today.

Jesus is called "the Word of God" because He is the chief expression of God to man.

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. (John 1:18 NAS95)
The expression "the word of God" as it is found in the bible never refers to the bible itself. This is a concept that may have been constructed by Protestantism.

The interesting thing about saying that the bible in the original manuscripts was competely inspired, or infallible, or what have you,
is that the bible never existed in that form. For when the original manuscripts were in existence, the bible didn't exist, because the "canon of scripture" had not yet been formulated in the church, and so the writings of the bible had never been put together in a single volume.

The "canon of scripture" had been defined in the fourth century. Later, I don't know how much later, the writings defined by this "canon" were bound together into a single volume. By the time that had happened, the original manuscripts no longer existed.

So the church at no time had "the wholly inspired, infallible bible" at any time in its history! Such a bible seems to be merely a mental construct, and not an actuality.

[_loaves]

Paidion: I see your point. There are many meanings to our English word "word."

STEVE7150: What is the diff? Well, you have all sorts of different flavors of Amish and Mennonites. Old Order Amish are the ones in buggies. No electricity, etc. "New" Order Amish or "Beachy" Amish believe in the new birth and use electricity, drive cars.

Mennonites are generally considered more liberal after Jacob Amman broke away from them, because they didn't force the shunning of excommunicated members, hence "Amish." Old Order "Mennonites" use buggies, etc. Conservative Mennonites believe in the new birth, and use electricity, etc. And then you have very liberal Mennonites where you will find their children in the public school, and women in the pulpit. What a spectrum, Huh?

Well, lets stay on topic.

loaves

[Guest]

The interesting thing about saying that the bible in the original manuscripts was competely inspired, or infallible, or what have you,
is that the bible never existed in that form. For when the original manuscripts were in existence, the bible didn't exist, because the "canon of scripture" had not yet been formulated in the church, and so the writings of the bible had never been put together in a single volume.

The "canon of scripture" had been defined in the fourth century. Later, I don't know how much later, the writings defined by this "canon" were bound together into a single volume. By the time that had happened, the original manuscripts no longer existed.

Paidion, Did'nt the early churches basically accept informally all the NT books except 2nd Peter,Jude and Rev. If that was the case was'nt that what would be called scripture at that time?

[_loaves]

Correction about Amish and Mennonites:
I was informed that I wasn’t totally accurate about the different kinds. Here goes:


Amish

Swartzentruber – Most conservative Amish. Absolutely no electricity. Men don’t trim their beards. No rubber on their buggy wheels. No telephone. They request that you don’t take their picture. Infant girls wear head covering.

Old Order – Next step down from Swartzentrubers. They use buggies. Rubber is ok though. Electricity only under extreme circumstances (i.e. – batteries, telephone). You can take their picture only under certain circumstances (i.e. – if their back is turned toward you).

New Order – Next step down from “Old” Order (go figure). They believe in the new birth. Usually only black cars. Electricity usually 100% optional. Congregations vary.

Beachy – Least conservative. Electricty ok. Men can trim their beards. They believe in the new birth. Infants girls usually not required to wear the head covering.


Mennonite

Mennonites are generally considered more liberal after Jacob Amman (17th cent.) broke away from them, because they didn't force the shunning of excommunicated members, hence "Amish." Old Order "Mennonites" use buggies, etc. Conservative Mennonites believe in the new birth, and use electricity, etc. And then you have very liberal Mennonites where you will find their children in the public school, and women in the pulpit. What a spectrum, Huh?

Agape,

loaves

[Guest]

Oregon is full of Mennonites, in fact I have some living across the street from me and they are wonderful believers. They don't use buggies or dress like they are still in the 1800's. They use modern farm equipment and you wouldn't even know there is anything different about them until you got to know them personally and found out what they believed.
My neighbors had some troubling issues they were dealing with and we went over and had morning prayer and fellowship with them three to five times a week for at least six months to help them work through the issues. There's nothing strange about them in the slightest. They believe that Jesus is the Christ , the Son of the living God, that He is the very God incarnate, and are for the advancement of the gosple.
This is just a personal word about Mennonites.

[_loaves]

Roger: I hear ya. People think Mennonites and Amish are the occult or something. But once you hear arguments from their perspective, you realize that they believe that Jesus is the Christ, we can't earn our way to heaven, etc., just like us. They are a very misunderstood group of believers.

Those Mennonites across from where you live; do they wear head coverings ("kapp")?

[Guest]

Paidion, Did'nt the early churches basically accept informally all the NT books except 2nd Peter,Jude and Rev. If that was the case was'nt that what would be called scripture at that time?

At the time, they didn't have a special word for "scripture" as modern Christians think of it. The Greek word "graphā" means "writing" and is sometimes translated as "scripture" in these days when it applies to parts of the Bible.

But that is beside the point. The point is that, at the time the original manuscripts existed, no one had all the books of the bible (as we know it) collected into a single volume.

[Guest]

The mennonites that I know look just like you and me loaves. No unusual clothing whatsoever. Now there are some German Babtists in the area here. I don't know if you have ever heard of these believers....and they are believers. The men all wear the same hat style,kind of like in the movie "Witness" with Harrison Ford if you ever saw that film based around the Amish people. The women, including the little girls all wear long floor length old style dresses. All the women wear head coverings at all times.