Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Years

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dwight92070
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Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Years

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:53 pm

Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord you God; you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter ... For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy."

So just as man was to work six 24-hour periods and rest on the seventh 24-hour period, so the Lord created the heavens and the earth in six 24-hour periods and rested on the seventh 24-hour period.

One day I was reading the genealogy of Genesis 5 and noticed that Adam was 130 years old when his son Seth was born. I realized that since Adam was created, not born, that at the time of his creation, he appeared to be an adult man, probably looking like he was 25 or so, but he was actually just minutes old. Also, he was created on the 6th day. Later we read the account of the 7th day and later yet we read that Adam was 130 years old was Seth was born. So during his 130 years of existence, the 7th day occurred. Therefore we know that the 7th day cannot be longer than 130 years, as some believe. In fact, as stated above, the 7th day was a 24-hour period.

Just for fun, I decided to calculate how old Adam was when his grandson Enosh was born - he was 235. When his great grandson Kenan was born, Adam was 325. When his great great grandson Mahalalel was born, Adam was 395. When Jared was born, Adam was 460. When Enoch was born, Adam was 622. When Methuselah was born, Adam was 687. When Lamech was born, Adam was 874. Adam died during Lamech's lifetime at 930. Noah was born 1056 years after Adam was created. The flood occurred 1656 years after Adam was created. (Genesis 7:6) Looking over at Genesis 11, we can calculate that Abraham was born 2008 years after Adam was created. (Genesis 11:32 and 12:4)

Jewish history tells us that Abraham was born about 1813 B.C. - estimates vary but not by much. So from the creation of Adam to the birth of Abraham was 2008 years. And from the birth of Abraham to the year 0 was 1813 years, so from the creation of Adam to the year 0 was (2008 + 1813) about 3821 years. From the year 0 to the present time has been 2016 years, so from the creation of Adam to the present day has been about (3821 + 2016) 5837 years, give or take 1 or 2 hundred years, depending on Abraham's birth year.

So we see from the Bible that the earth is about 6000 years old.

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Homer
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Re: Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Year

Post by Homer » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:50 pm

Dwight,

The 24 hour day in the creation story is not without its problems. Consider the following from Genesis:

From Genesis 1:5, 16, 2:2 (NASB)

5. God called the light day (Hebrew yom), and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day (yom).

16. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day (yom), and the lesser light to govern the night;

2:2. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day (yom) from all His work which He had done.

The same Hebrew word, yom, appears to represent three different ideas in the verses in Genesis cited above. First it represents daylight hours. Then in the same verse Yom represents a 24 hour period. Then again in verse 16 it again represents daytime. And arguably in 2:2 yom represents the time from the cessation of God's work of creation to this very day. As Jesus indicated, God has not ever ceased from work and completely rested; He only rested from the work of creation:

John 5:17 (NASB)

17. But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”


It would appear the rest from creation amounts to a period of thousands of years.

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dwight92070
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Re: Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Year

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:13 am

Homer wrote:Dwight,

The 24 hour day in the creation story is not without its problems. Consider the following from Genesis:

From Genesis 1:5, 16, 2:2 (NASB)

5. God called the light day (Hebrew yom), and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day (yom).

16. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day (yom), and the lesser light to govern the night;

2:2. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day (yom) from all His work which He had done.

The same Hebrew word, yom, appears to represent three different ideas in the verses in Genesis cited above. First it represents daylight hours. Then in the same verse Yom represents a 24 hour period. Then again in verse 16 it again represents daytime. And arguably in 2:2 yom represents the time from the cessation of God's work of creation to this very day. As Jesus indicated, God has not ever ceased from work and completely rested; He only rested from the work of creation:

John 5:17 (NASB)

17. But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”


It would appear the rest from creation amounts to a period of thousands of years.
Homer,

I don't see any problem. The word "day" is used the same way today. It can refer to the daylight hours or to a 24 hour period. In fact, the very reason that we understand today that it has those two meanings is because that's how God defined it in chapter one of Genesis. But the scripture makes it very clear which one it is referring to. After each day of creation it says: "And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day" (or whatever day). Obviously it is referring to both the nighttime and the daytime, which is a 24 hour period.

Granted it does not say that for the 7th day, but there is no warrant for presuming that that day is any longer (or shorter) than the other 6 days. Again Exodus 20:8-11 makes it even more clear that just as man rests during one 24 hour period after working six 24 hour periods, so God Himself did the same. Day 7 of the creation week ended after 24 hours. There's no indication that the 7th day goes on thousands of years. If that was true, then man would also have to rest for thousands of years, after 6 days of work. Just because it appears that God is no longer creating, this does not mean that He is still resting from creation today. IMO that's reading into the text.

IMO, the "problems" that people have with seven 24 hour periods are related to unbelief and/or their wanting to fit the theories of evolution into the Bible narrative. But the two do not mix. One is fact, the other is a theory. It is clear that God did not use evolution to bring man in to the earth He created man from the dust of the ground during one 24 hour period and woman was created from one of Adam's ribs during that same period.

Dwight

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Re: Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Year

Post by Paidion » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:12 am

Dwight, basically I agree with you. To me, the concept of evolution is ludicrous. Even if I were an atheist, I would reject the evolutionary explanation of life (as well as cosmic evolution— the "big bang" theory).

However, I would point out one minor error in your post. There was no year zero.
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Re: Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Year

Post by mattrose » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:52 am

I may be a bit of an oddball on this issue.

I have no problem with the label 'young earth creationist'

But I'm not sure the numbers involved were meant to be taken so concretely as guys like Usher took them.

I lean toward the view that the planet is less than 10,000 years old, but I wouldn't venture to try to determine its exact age. I don't think the texts were meant to be taken quite like that. The thing that makes me 'odd' (perhaps) is that I don't fit potentially 'extra' years in the creation week... I think it is more likely to be found in the so-called chrono-genealogies in Genesis. I think there is a good chance those lists were manipulated (not deceptiviely) for symbolic purposes and never intended as strict generation-by-generation accounts.

But I'm not sure. I remain open to evidence for an older earth. I just haven't been convinced.

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Re: Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Year

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:14 am

Paidon,

I have heard that before about the year 0, but don't understand it. Can you explain please?

Mattrose,

If the lists were manipulated or are symbolic, then why would exact years be used as opposed to rounding them off? For example, Methuselah lived to be exactly 969 years old. Jared had his son Enoch when he was exactly 162 years old. Methuselah became the father of Lamech when he was exactly 187 years old. Lamech was exactly 182 years old when he had Noah. Lamech died when he was exactly 777 years old. Why the exact years, if this list is symbolic, or manipulated? It would not make sense.

Dwight

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Re: Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Year

Post by Paidion » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:52 am

Our system of counting years is supposed to begin with the birth of Christ. So supposedly, the first year of Christ's birth was the year 1 A.D. (1 Anno Domini). "Anno Domini" means "in the year of our Lord."
The year before the year in which Christ was supposedly born was 1 B.C. (1 Before Christ). So there was no year zero in between these two years.

By the way, I say that Christ was supposedly born in 1 A.D. because more recent information indicates that his birth was more likely to have been in 4 B.C.
Last edited by Paidion on Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Year

Post by mattrose » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:23 pm

dwight92070 wrote: If the lists were manipulated or are symbolic, then why would exact years be used as opposed to rounding them off? For example, Methuselah lived to be exactly 969 years old. Jared had his son Enoch when he was exactly 162 years old. Methuselah became the father of Lamech when he was exactly 187 years old. Lamech was exactly 182 years old when he had Noah. Lamech died when he was exactly 777 years old. Why the exact years, if this list is symbolic, or manipulated? It would not make sense.

Dwight
Hey Dwight :)

There are two ways that the numbers might have been played with symbolically

First, the length of each man's life could have been given a symbolic number
Second, the number of men listed may have been chosen for symbolic value

I do not claim to be able to get into the heads of the compiler(s) of these lists and the numbers and why they listed them as they did. It could be that they meant them literally. But there may be some evidence that they meant them symbolically. Let me quote something I recently read:

"All age numbers (30 in all [when looking at age when they had son, how long they lived after that, and how old when they died]) from Adam to Noah are a combination of the sacred numbers 60 (years and months) and 7. No numbers end in 1, 3, 4, 6, or 8-- a chance probability of one in a billion... all this cannot be coincidental. The Mesopotamians were using sacred numbers, not real numbers." (Carol Hill)

Now, she might be playing around with #'s as much as she suspects they were, but it's at least worth considering.

Additionally, both Noah & Abraham appear to be the 10th generational descendant (Noah 10th from Adam, Abram 10th from Noah). The number 10 is often supposed to have symbolic value for ancients too.

I'm not saying any of this is necessarily legit. I'm just saying there appears to be some possible evidence that the numbers have symbolic (and not necessarily) literal value.

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Re: Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Year

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:04 pm

Mattrose,

With all due respect, that is gobblety-gook. What on earth compels men to try to find some hidden, encoded, symbolic, message or meaning behind the words and numbers of the Bible? It reminds me of Paul's words to Elymas the magician, who was also called Bar-Jesus, a Jewish false prophet: "You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord?" (Or in this case, "Will you not cease to make confusing the clear words and numbers of the Bible?") This is not a personal attack on you, Mattrose. It is an attack on anyone who attempts to make the Bible say anything and everything OTHER than what is obviously says.

Once again, going by those so called "methods" of interpretation, you can make the Bible say anything you want. But if you just accept the words and numbers at face value, you have to arrive at a fixed endpoint or conclusion, because words and numbers mean things. In this case, the words and numbers "force" us to arrive at the inevitable conclusion that the earth is about 6,000 years old.

Many people don't want to accept that or believe that. Too bad, you didn't write the Bible, nor did I. We didn't get a vote on what we wanted it to say. None of us were given a "gift" of decoding the words and numbers of scripture. That would presuppose that God ENCODED the Bible, so that only certain people could get it's true message. We were given the Holy Spirit to help us and guide us in properly interpreting the actual words and numbers of scripture.

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Re: Days of Creation/24 Hour Periods, Age of Earth/6000 Year

Post by mattrose » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:21 pm

You seem to be of the persuasion that the 'correct' way to interpret these Scriptures (at least) is to interpret them in a literal/concrete way. I would simply suggest that the 'correct' way to interpret Scripture involves identifying the literary genre and using all the resources available to us to understand how the original audience would have understood that genre and its contents.

It may be that the original authors/recipients of the text knew that the numbers were more symbolic than literal. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, only that it could be the case. My point is we shouldn't discount that possibility.

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