Can Science Explain the Origin of life?

[jonperry]

The powers that be in the world of "science" have decreed that a supernatural explanation of the origin of the universe is not allowed as an option.

Science (the study of nature, not the supernatural) is a special tool for investigating a phenomenon, it's not the only tool. Many scientists also spend time in spiritual exploration as well but not while doing science.

some of the more level headed have pointed out that the idea of the universe beginning by pure random chance is statistically impossible. Isn't that scientific proof that the naturalistic assumptions for beginnings are wrong? From the molecular to the galactic, the whole universe exhibits a very complex, sophisticated level of order, purpose, and design. Wouldn't you agree?

I don't know enough about the science of the origin of the universe to give you my opinion on the matter. This particular discussion is not about the origin of the universe, it is about the origin of life on Earth. From my studies I do think the first living things could have formed without an intelligence intervening. The laws of physics and chemistry appear to be sufficient for the origin of life.

there's way too much energy put into the question of how the universe began. At the end of our life, what good will that have served?

Science focuses mainly on the "how" of any topic it studies. If you don't like spending your time thinking about "how" you don't have to, but I find it very interesting.

The more important questions are why was the universe created? And why were we created? Not how. These are the questions we should make our life's work. And the current definition of naturalistic science gives us no help with these.

Religion, spirituality, and some branches of philosophy focus more on the "why" questions. I do think these are interesting as well but they don't usually fit into a scientific discussion.

[jonperry]

This is the cunundrum I come up against in all of these "controlled" experiments. In each case, we have intelligent minds (the scientific observers) arranging the dynamic. If, though, there is no Creator, who then controlled the original dynamic?

What do you mean by "original dynamic"? Are you speaking of the early Earth conditions (4 billion years ago) or the first spark of the universe? This discussion is on life origins which many scientists believe happened roughly 4 billion years ago on Earth. It is not about the 'original dynamic' (big-bang) which physicists place at over 14 billion years ago. Unfortunately, I have not studied the big bang and so I'm not a good person to discuss that with.

To learn about the Earth 4 billion years ago, we study cause and effect observations today, and extrapolate them backwards through time. We also get clues from meteorites and so on. These are helpful for reasons which David Deamer explains in his lecture: http://youtu.be/_SHHfnIHXQI

It's very possible that our models of the ancient earth are wrong. This research stretches us to the edge of ignorance and knowledge. All the sketches we come up with are very loose and tentative.

[kenblogton]

Reply to jonperry
You are correct in that we have not created a living thing from scratch yet, but David Deamer's group is getting dangerously close. They have protocells which self-assemble, polymerize DNA, and even perform rudimentary growth and reproduction when conditions are right. All this is done under what are arguably legitimate pre-biotic conditions (early Earth conditions).
You say this group is getting dangerously close to synthesizing life. Close only counts in horseshoes. Abiogenesis has never occurred because, as my postings in God and Science indicate, it is impossible, because all synthesizing simulations of the life form amino acids in the lab contain equal quantities of the left molecular rotation forms, the life form, and the mirror-image right molecular rotation form, which negates the possibility of life.
kenblogton

[jonperry]

Abiogenesis has never occurred because, as my postings in God and Science indicate, it is impossible, because all synthesizing simulations of the life form amino acids in the lab contain equal quantities of the left molecular rotation forms, the life form, and the mirror-image right molecular rotation form, which negates the possibility of life.

We have actually found several ways in which the left and right amino acids can be sorted under pre-biotic conditions. Here's a paper which goes over one of the pre-biotic amino acid and nucleotide sorting methods which have been discovered: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/ ... 6.full.pdf

[kenblogton]

Reply to jonperry
We have actually found several ways in which the left and right amino acids can be sorted under pre-biotic conditions. Here's a paper which goes over one of the pre-biotic amino acid and nucleotide sorting methods which have been discovered: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/ ... 6.full.pdf
Until there actually is an abiogenetic life synthesis, and not a paper on how it might be done, we are dealing with speculation, not evidence.
kenblogton

[PR]

Jon, do you believe that all the necessary ingredients for life randomly organized themselves without any type of guidance or direction?

Thanks

Phil

[jonperry]

Jon, do you believe that all the necessary ingredients for life randomly organized themselves without any type of guidance or direction?

No, the early ingredients of life appear to have been guided by the laws of chemistry and physics as observed in the lab. Once the first reproducing systems had formed, they were also guided by descent with modification acted upon by natural selection.

Again I'd like to point out that having natural explanations for things does not necessarily mean there is no Creator or sustainer of nature itself.

[jonperry]

Until there actually is an abiogenetic life synthesis, and not a paper on how it might be done, we are dealing with speculation, not evidence.

'Hypothesis' is probably a better word than 'speculation' in this case but yes you are correct. In fact, even when we do synthesis life under pre-biotic conditions, it will not tell us exactly how life originated on our planet. It will just give us one possible pathway.

Here's some information about a simple form of life which researchers are working on synthesizing by way of pre-biotic reactions only: http://exploringorigins.org/protocells.html

It is not yet fully functional in the lab.