Video of Evolution Debate: Steve Gregg and Jon Perry

[jonperry]

why you have the conviction that belief in a Creator is an impediment to intellectual progress

You seem to think I said that a belief in a creator is an impediment to progress. I never said that but if you didn't click my links I see how you may have understood my words that way. Instead I said that creationism is an impediment to biology. When I speak of 'creationism' I'm not talking about anyone who believes in a creator. Instead I'm talking specifically about people who reject evolution because they believe in a creator. This rejection is unnecessary.

A belief that a God of one sort or another is behind creation does no harm to anyone; however, teaching kids that scientists are out to trick them, teaching kids to accept a supernatural explanation of things before examining the natural possibilities - these things DO harm us. They make us stop learning prematurely. This poison is the doctrine of the Young Earth Creation movement in the United States. It is the doctrine of Boko Haram in the east. It is garbage. It is not needed.

Please re-read my post above and make sure to check out the biologos link before posting further.

[seer]

A belief that a God of one sort or another is behind creation does no harm to anyone; however, teaching kids that scientists are out to trick them, teaching kids to accept a supernatural explanation of things before examining the natural possibilities - these things DO harm us. They make us stop learning prematurely. This poison is the doctrine of the Young Earth Creation movement in the United States. It is the doctrine of Boko Haram in the east. It is garbage. It is not needed.

To be upfront Jon I am an open creationist, basically that means I don't have a clue - though I have no problem with young earth creationists. Now, I don't see the harm that you speak of. So what if Christians teach their kids these thing? Science will march on with or without us. And remember according to our worldview there is a great deceiver at work in this world who could or does deceive large groups of men, scientists included. Then there is our "sin nature" that tends not to glorify God. So I certainly hold out the possibility that science is completely wrong or deceived in many of their conclusions - including macro-evolution or the age of the earth, lack of a global flood, etc... And it is after all a fact that the materialistic ethos is largely being fueled by modern science. This of course reduces the human person to a biological accident, with no overriding purpose and no more inherent worth than a common house fly... Talk about dangerous doctrine...

[TheEditor]

Hi Jon,

You wrote:

Please re-read my post above and make sure to check out the biologos link before posting further.

I will check out the links you provided as time permits. But, considering this thread stands on it's own, I will respond. I was replying to the relatively few statments you have made here, so if I did not understand your position fully, then I apologize. However, you did use a superstitious view of animism and the grandfathered-in notions regarding the supernatural as an example of religion making one cease to look for an answer, an answer that might have been of benefit. Fair enough; if this were a forum that advocated ignoring scientific inquiry because of superstitious fears. Since this is a forum frequented mainly by people who believe in God and apparently do like to engage in inquiry, I thought it an apples and oranges example.

Regards, Brenden.

PS. My other observations still stand.

[TheEditor]

wassup with that picture of yours? Update it already

lol...it's an old inside joke...just ignore the pic. A real one of me would be too frightening!

[robbyyoung]

lol...it's an old inside joke...just ignore the pic. A real one of me would be too frightening!

LOL... I was actually referring to your comment concerning Jon's elementary school picture

[TheEditor]

LOL... I was actually referring to your comment concerning Jon's elementary school picture

Ha! I get it now. Although, that picture of me does need to be updated as it is from the 1860s or 1870s I believe....

Regards, Brenden.

[SteveF]

Seer wrote:

So what if Christians teach their kids these thing? Science will march on with or without us

I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are you advocating that it's okay for Christians to live in willful ignorance?

[jriccitelli]

However, you did use a superstitious view of animism and the grandfathered-in notions regarding the supernatural as an example of religion making one cease to look for an answer (Editor)

True, you can dig up dingbats on either side of the debate. I could go on about how religious people, Christians and scientists have all made huge blunders, and will continue to do so, but we all know that already.

You can basically put all who believe in a great Creator on one side, and all who do 'not' believe in a *Creator on the other.
Making and taking random punches and instances from each side could go on for eternity as humans are on both sides.
The question is ‘Is there a Creator?’ And based on what?
Based on the fact that ‘there is’ a Creation (or a bunch of things that evolved to look as if they were created, if you’re an evolutionist).
I agree YECs are totally off base, just as agnostics and atheists and every human being is off base on something, but that is not the base of the argument, does evolution or creation make sense should be the argument.

How complex does creation have to be before you have to say this could not have happened on its own?

(*Note, I did not say 'God', a creator creates, other gods just stand by and wonder what is going to happen)

[seer]

Seer wrote:

So what if Christians teach their kids these thing? Science will march on with or without us

I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are you advocating that it's okay for Christians to live in willful ignorance?

I'm saying it doesn't make much of a difference. If their belief, which may include the possibility of massive demonic deception that could taint scientific conclusions, helps to bolster their faith in Christ and the veracity of scripture then I see no down side. In the end will God really be angry if His children took His word more literally?

[jriccitelli]

Seer, I think Gods Word tells us to seek truth, and be wise of craftiness. We do not want to attribute lies to God, and truth to be coming from the Serpent. In all our learning we are told to get understanding, I do not think Solomon was speaking only of bible knowledge but to seek wisdom in all our thinking. Then you will end up at Jesus.