Upcoming Debate: Evolution vs Creation

[jonperry]

Steve Gregg and I will be debating about the assertion: Science has demonstrated evolution to be true

I believe it has, Steve believes it has not.

Date:
Friday September 20th

Time:
6:30pm

Location:
Unitarian-Universalist Fellowship
2945 NW Circle Blvd, Corvallis, OR 97330

You can learn more and RSVP on the facebook events page https://www.facebook.com/events/196753533833989/

[steve]

By the way, Jon. Where do you stand on the "God" question? I know you are no longer a Mormon, but are you a theist, atheist or agnostic?

By the way, I really like your cartoons.

[jonperry]

Steve, to answer your question about my religious beliefs - after struggling for over 26 years within Mormonism, I've become a bit disillusioned by religion in general. My main issue with Mormonism (and other religions I know of) is its underlying message of divisive certainty which goes something like this: "We're right and everyone else is damned for no good reason".

My brother has stayed in the faith but seems to have rejected the attitude mentioned above. I found it better for me to leave the church all together. I've been out for almost 4 years now and I feel much healthier then I did before.

For the time being I do not actively maintain a belief in any sort of God in the traditional sense. I do however, actively maintain reverence for many of the ideals that people commonly attribute to God such as mercy, kindness, love, and justice. I believe in honesty, in the golden rule, in respecting my neighbors, and in allowing people to live their lives however they see fit, as long as they do not use that freedom to destroy the freedom of others.

I do not know what will happen after I die but I do know I want to live in a peaceful place while I'm alive. I strive to build a healthy community for myself and others to enjoy.

I have no desire to preach atheism or agnosticism. Instead, my passion is for advocating science. The scientific conversation is a conversation strictly limited to observation and how those observations can be logically connected. When everyone in the conversation respects these limits it allow everyone to talk and learn freely no matter what their personal beliefs and cultural backgrounds may be. I find this beautiful.

The theory of evolution is a valid scientific theory which has been demonstrated to be true in as much as observation and logic permit us to discover. I'm very pleased to meet you in a moderated debate about the subject.

After our phone conversation you may be interested in this Gould quote:

"The entire creationist program includes little more than a rhetorical attempt to falsify evolution by presenting supposed contradictions among its supporters... Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists—whether through design or stupidity, I do not know—as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups."

You can read more about that here: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/ ... heory.html

[steve]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[SteveF]

Will the debate be recorded?

As someone who finds the evidence for Evolution compelling, I’d be interested in hearing Steve and Jon discuss the points raised in the following two videos if possible.

Taxonomy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsuIpSDXRAE

Genetics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_zDWUguU_Y


Jon wrote:

I've become a bit disillusioned by religion in general.

I hope that getting away from organized religion for a while may help you to see God in a new light. I became a Christian while reading a Bible at my home. I had virtually no real understanding about Christianity and hadn't been to a church in years. So while I now enjoy meeting with other Christians, identifying with a particular organization is still not something I find necessary, only optional.

[jonperry]

The announcement page on this website says the debate will start at 7 but it actually starts at 6:30

You can RSVP on our facebook page but this is not necessary. It will be first come first serve for seating. 300 spots.

[jonperry]

Will the debate be recorded?

Yes it will be filmed and put online on my website http://www.statedclearly.com and probably in the forums here.

[TrumanSmith]

I will try to attend in person too. Form my debate with Steve Gregg (last week) where we also talked about evolution, I'd predict this:
1. Jon gives scientific evidence
2. Steve asserts that there are plenty of other scientists who disagrees. (First, it isn't true; second, most detractors are creationists and not really even qualified to speak as authorities).

So essentially Jon will be talking about direct evidence, and Steve will rely on a logical fallacy called "Appeal to authority." (Appealing to authority isn't bad if they were really representative authorities.)

More info on the logical fallacy here:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

In addition, Steve might also pull out another logical fallacy called "appeal to ignorance" (he did this in his other atheist debate a few years ago). This is when you claim an "unknown" is evidence for your side. Such as asking "How did life originate? How did the universe originate? No one knows, therefore God did it." "Unknowns" are not evidence for either side, that's why it is a logical fallacy. Historically, we seen these "unknowns" get explained with new science.

More info on that logical fallacy here:
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ignorant.html

[steve]

Jon, I'll let you answer Truman. It will give us all a preview of your thought processes in advance of the debate.

I gave Truman his chance to reason with me. He squandered it by pretending (I hope he was pretending!) to be a moron. Now he is trying to draw me back into debate by saying incredibly stupid things. I have better things to do than to engage.

[TrumanSmith]

Jon, I'll let you answer Truman. It will give us all a preview of your thought processes in advance of the debate.

I gave Truman his chance to reason with me. He squandered it by pretending (I hope he was pretending!) to be a moron. Now he is trying to draw me back into debate by saying incredibly stupid things. I have better things to do than to engage.

Ya right, Steve, I'm the moron... you're the bright guy who dismisses the evidence of evolution while admitting you don't even know what synteny is, or what pseudogenes are. I hope you have a chance to watch this series before your next debate, to at least come up-to-speed with the basic concepts:
"Dennis Venema - Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution? - Part 4"
http://youtu.be/-rFoZyHISWU