worship/praying to the Spirit?
- 21centpilgrim
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:17 pm
worship/praying to the Spirit?
Is there anywhere in scripture that calls us to worship the Spirit, or pray to the Spirit?
If the Trinity is true then such silence is a bit deflating.
I have often heard that 'the Spirit is the modest one in the Trinity' as to why there is scant biblical support for the 'third person' trinitarian defense.
If the Trinity is true then such silence is a bit deflating.
I have often heard that 'the Spirit is the modest one in the Trinity' as to why there is scant biblical support for the 'third person' trinitarian defense.
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.
Re: worship/praying to the Spirit?
Here’s John Piper’s take- I think I agree for the most part.
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/ ... we-pray-to
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/ ... we-pray-to
Re: worship/praying to the Spirit?
But there is also scant reference in the scriptures to prayer directed to Jesus. Off the top of my head I can think of only two: Stephen when he was stoned and once in Revelation.
Jesus taught His disciples to pray "Father..........
It has not been revealed to us the "why" of some things of the working of the triune God. For example, why did Jesus say the Spirit could not come until He left?
Jesus taught His disciples to pray "Father..........
It has not been revealed to us the "why" of some things of the working of the triune God. For example, why did Jesus say the Spirit could not come until He left?
Re: worship/praying to the Spirit?
So doesn't that tell us something?—the fact that virtually all of the prayers recorded in the New Testament are addressed to God the Father, as well as Jesus' instructions for prayer.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: worship/praying to the Spirit?
I would like to suggest an answer to that question.Homer wrote:For example, why did Jesus say the Spirit could not come until He left?
First, is the Spirit an individual divine Person? Or is the Spirit an extension of the Persons of the Father and/or the Son?
Consider the fact that in the following passage it is declared twice that the Lord Jesus IS the Spirit:
However, during Jesus' life here on earth as a complete human being, His Spirit was confined to His physical body. So He couldn't send that Spirit into His people until His resurrection. He indicated that afterwards He and the Father would come and dwell with those who love Him and keep His word.But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:14-18 ESV)
How would Jesus and His Father do that? Was it not by extending their Persons or Spirit into those who love Jesus and keep His word? Jesus would be able to carry out this promise after His resurrection. But as long as He had a human body, His Person was confined to His body.Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (John 14:23 ESV)
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
- 21centpilgrim
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:17 pm
Re: worship/praying to the Spirit?
Thanks TK for the feedback. The article is a good summary. However there is no example in scripture to pray to the Spirit. Even Piper's example of a believer saying 'come Holy Spirit' is akin to a prayer even though that exact language is not used in the Bible. |TK wrote:Here’s John Piper’s take- I think I agree for the most part.
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/ ... we-pray-to
We do have along those lines a teaching of Jesus about asking the Father for the Holy Spirit- so that would seem to be the approach to follow.
Strange then, that if the Trinity is true, that there is zero examples or instruction to pray to the Spirit.
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.
Re: worship/praying to the Spirit?
To me, saying “come Holy Spirit” is akin to saying “we need you” or “you are welcome here.”
When Jesus was on earth, people obviously asked him directly for things. “Make me clean,” “help my unbelief,” “I want to see.”
I have never felt odd addressing Jesus directly and I do not believe He is offended. After all, how can we be expected to have a relationship with Jesus if we do not talk to him?
For some reason I do not feel comfortable praying to the HS directly.
When Jesus was on earth, people obviously asked him directly for things. “Make me clean,” “help my unbelief,” “I want to see.”
I have never felt odd addressing Jesus directly and I do not believe He is offended. After all, how can we be expected to have a relationship with Jesus if we do not talk to him?
For some reason I do not feel comfortable praying to the HS directly.
Re: worship/praying to the Spirit?
Your points have a lot of merit. They also sound like modalism. I am not offended by modalist. I even have family members that attend ‘oneness’ churches. I like what Steve Gregg has said, ‘many in the first church and many today do not have a very accurate understanding of the Godhead, but that does not mean they are not saved (paraphrased)’.
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