An Observation

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TheEditor
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An Observation

Post by TheEditor » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:02 pm

An observation by Brooke Foss Westcott (of Westcott and Hort fame):

"It may be objected that devout students of the Bible have often proved to be the sternest fanatics. But the answer is easy. They were fanatics because they were students not of the whole Bible but of some one fragment of it to which all else was sacrificed. The teaching of one part only, if taken without any regard to its relative position in connexion with other times and other books, may lead to narrowness of thought, but the whole recognizes and ennobles every excellence of man."
(The Bible in the Church, p. 13; )
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backwoodsman
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Re: An Observation

Post by backwoodsman » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:20 pm

That reminds me a lot of a quote from the second most important book on the planet:

(In case you're wondering, that would be The Pilgrim Church by E. H. Broadbent. :) )

"Sectarianism is limitation. Some truth taught in Scripture, some part of the Divine revelation, is apprehended, and the heart responds to it and accepts it. As it is dwelt upon, expounded, defended, its power and beauty increasingly influence those affected by it. Another side of truth, another view of revelation, also contained in Scripture, seems to weaken, even to contradict the truth that has been found to be so effectual, and in jealous fear for the doctrine accepted and taught the balancing truth is minimized, explained away, even denied. So on a portion of revelation, on a part of the Word, a sect is founded, good and useful because it preaches and practices Divine truth, but limited and unbalanced because it does not see all truth, nor frankly accept the whole of Scripture. Its members are not only deprived of the full use of all Scripture, but are cut off from the fellowship of many saints, who are less limited than they, or limited in another direction. There is reason to regret the divisions of the Lord's people, for their underlying, essential unity is obscured by these outward and apparent divisions; yet liberty in the churches to emphasize what they have learned and experienced is of the greatest value, and even the sectarian conflicts between churches zealous for different aspects of truth, have led to much searching of Scripture and discovery of its treasures. When this goes on in such a way as to endanger love, the loss is great; nevertheless, worse than sectarian strife is uniformity maintained at the cost of liberty, or reunion made possible by indifference."

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Re: An Observation

Post by jriccitelli » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:57 am

An observation, from the Bible, since this is a bible forum:

"Observe the commands of the Lord your God, walking in obedience to Him and revering Him. 7 For the Lord your God is bringing you into a good land... Be careful that you do not forget the Lord your God, failing to observe his commands, His laws and His decrees that I am giving you this day. 12 Otherwise, when you eat and are satisfied, when you build fine houses and settle down, 13 and when your herds and flocks grow large and your silver and gold increase and all you have is multiplied, 14 then your heart will become proud and you will forget the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery" (Duet 8:1-20)

"And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God ask of you but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to Him, to love Him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to observe the Lord’s commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?... 20 Fear the Lord your God and serve Him. Hold fast to Him and take your oaths in His name. 21 He is the one you praise; He is your God, who performed for you those great and awesome wonders you saw with your own eyes" (Duet 10:12-22)

That reminds me a lot of a quote from Jesus on the second most important commandment, from the most important book on the planet:

“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” 41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question: 42 “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They said to Him, “The son of David.” 43 He said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord' (Matt 22:39-46)

It would seem that Jesus goes directly from the observation of the greatest commandments to asking them questions about who He is. This shows Jesus wanted to remind them of the love that was necessary to know Him in truth, this truth that was foundational to the liberty and freedom to ask questions regarding things of the greatest value, namely questions about Him. In this context I would agree with:
"liberty in the churches to emphasize what they have learned and experienced is of the greatest value, and even the sectarian conflicts between churches zealous for different aspects of truth, have led to much searching of Scripture and discovery of its treasures" (E. H. Broadbent)
:)

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TheEditor
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Re: An Observation

Post by TheEditor » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:13 pm

HI JR,

I'm not certain I track with what you are trying to say when you underline the word "observe" in your comment, other than the fact that the word shares commonality with the title of my thread. You aren't suggesting we "observe" the Law commandments, which is what the passage you highlighted is about, are you?

I also don't know that there is anything significant in Jesus' question of the Pharisees in this passage and the identification of himself, other than the fact that the Messiah would be greater than David and this didn't comport with their expectations. I would say given the context of the passage, Jesus had already handily dismissed with the Sadducees and the fact they knew not the Scriptures nor their power. Given the rivalry between the two sects, it likely delighted the Pharisees that the Sadducees were put in their place. However, if they thought perhaps they were immune to the charge of not knowing the Scriptures, Jesus asks them a question they didn't have the answer to, thus deflating their pride and delighting the crowd. He then begins his attacks on the hypocrisy and false teaching of the Scribes and Pharisees.

You have managed to wiggle the trinity even into this context. You aren't trying to prove Westcott's observation now, are you? :lol:

Regards, Brenden.

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Re: An Observation

Post by jriccitelli » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:39 pm

Your post was a little vague, what or where was it that this observation happened, was it not your observation, or was it just the authors observation?

Are you suggesting we do not observe the Law and commandments?

And you did post this under 'The Trinity' so who wiggled it in, me or someone else?

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TheEditor
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Re: An Observation

Post by TheEditor » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:15 pm

Hi JR,

The observation was the author's, but I concurred.

The title of the thread was "An Observation"; you then pasted from Deuteronomy and underlined the word "observe" a few times. The verse quoted directed that we observe the Mosaic Law. No, we do not observe it. Do you?

I chose to post a new thread; my choice of "trinity" as a section of the forum to post in was half arbitrary (I could have posted under "Radio Show" but that would have made no sense), but my post was not directed at the trinity specifically as a doctrine, just the concept of being Johnny-one-note about doctrines in general. Since this is the most polarizing doctrine, it seemed appropriate. You inserted it into the body of the conversation though. I am wondering if you are vexed because the shoe fit? :lol:

Regards, Brenden.
Last edited by TheEditor on Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An Observation

Post by jriccitelli » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:40 pm

'Since this is the most polarizing doctrine, it seemed appropriate'
What is the most polarizing doctrine? Your starting to sound like a good shoe salesman now. :lol:

dizerner

Re: An Observation

Post by dizerner » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:53 pm

TheEditor wrote:An observation by Brooke Foss Westcott (of Westcott and Hort fame):

"It may be objected that devout students of the Bible have often proved to be the sternest fanatics. But the answer is easy. They were fanatics because they were students not of the whole Bible but of some one fragment of it to which all else was sacrificed. The teaching of one part only, if taken without any regard to its relative position in connexion with other times and other books, may lead to narrowness of thought, but the whole recognizes and ennobles every excellence of man."
(The Bible in the Church, p. 13; )
Well, I appreciate the point. It particularly applies to Calvinism, which takes a few out of context verses to say God authored evil and man has no libertarian free will. As for the Trinity, I don't see a problem—the Bible is saturated with it.

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TheEditor
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Re: An Observation

Post by TheEditor » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:12 pm

the Bible is saturated with it


In the eye of the beholder....

Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

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Re: An Observation

Post by Singalphile » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:18 am

I agree with jriccitelli that the the topic/post is a little vague. So I'm not exactly sure what sort of "fanatics" Brooke Foss Westcott is talking about there, but I would say that some people have a certain personality type that lends itself to fanaticism of a divisive/negative sort.

More broad ranging knowledge might be the "cure", but I'm not sure. I think you could give such people twice as much knowledge and they'd just be twice as divisive. I guess that it's more a matter of pride and self-control. Some people struggle with it and some don't. (Step one is probably to identify which category you're in.)

It's not just seen among religious folk, for sure. I think it might have something in common with conspiricism, maybe.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

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