Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

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darinhouston
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Re: Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

Post by darinhouston » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:50 pm

jriccitelli, yes the power of Christ is the power of God, but in what sense? The power that Jesus had was the power of the Father -- that didn't make him the Father. Jesus did nothing of his own power, but of that of his Father. We have that same power thanks to Christ. So, I think it can be said to be the power of Christ in that Christ made it possible for us to live in that power and to partake of and live according to leading of the Holy Spirit.


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jriccitelli
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Re: Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

Post by jriccitelli » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:13 pm

You say you believe the Holy Spirit is The Father, and er God. That's good. And that the Spirit of God indwelt Christ, that's good. You would only believe the actual Spirit of Christ (His being) is also God, only if you accepted that Jesus is also God (That all three are One God).

So then, I am assuming you are leaning toward Unitarian, so who was Jesus before he came to Earth then, to you?

Secondly, do you believe The Fathers Spirit, The Holy Spirit that is, thinks and speaks?

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darinhouston
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Re: Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

Post by darinhouston » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:16 pm

I wouldn't say the father's spirit. I think I would say he is spirit not that he has a spirit.

I'm not sure I agree that Jesus had a pre-existence. I wouldn't deny it, but I don't think it's required by the revelation in Scripture. But even if he did have a pre-existence, that doesn't require an eternal pre-existence. But if he did pre-exist, I don't see him pre-existing as the man called Jesus. If do, then He must have been what John called the Word. But I'm not sure even in that case it's necessary to consider the Word to be a person or a member of the so-called hothead.


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Re: Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

Post by dizerner » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:35 pm

Gotta love that auto-correct :lol:. No one that I've ever heard of thinks Christ's pre-existence was as a human being.

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Homer
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Re: Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

Post by Homer » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:36 pm

Well, I heard something about God being a consuming fire, but I'm not sure about that "hothead" thing.

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Re: Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

Post by jriccitelli » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:29 am

Well, maybe that's why being on fire for God really is the sign of being filled with the Holy Ghost.
I wouldn't say the father's spirit. I think I would say he is spirit not that he has a spirit.
I agree. You said earlier that 'the power that Jesus had was the power of the Father'. And so I assume you are saying the power of Christ is the Father. I would then assume that you believe the Father indwelt Jesus, since Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit (The Father). I also believe that God indwelt Jesus, and John, and everyone who was filled with the Holy Spirit, but we reserve the name 'The Father' to represent Gods position and relationship with us, and as a formal respect of speech (as you do also). I believe the term Father is not used much in the OT just because of the intimate nature of the word, and what the word Father implies (and in respect to mans fallen relationship with God).

God choose many other words to relate His presence with us such as I AM, Shadday, Shepherd, Bridegroom, Husband, Lord, Most High, Jealous, Awesome, Holy, Great, Peace, Creator, Helper, Potter, Savior, Redeemer, Shield, Rock, King, Hope of Israel, etc. Father is one of the most intimate of terms, yet none of the other terms are laid aside, they are all God, and The Father is not Gods only Name. I might not use the term 'The Father' as in The Father indwells me, but I could, because it is true that if God indwells me then The Lord, Most High, Jealous, Awesome, Great, Peace, Creator, Helper also indwell me. Yet I think I would say the Helper, only because it is fitting. So no matter what name of The God of Israel I call God, God is still God in every sense, whether speaking of God in The heavens or God who indwells me.

As a side note, I could make the point that Yeshua is also another word for God, only this Word was indwelling a body. As it would be if the Potter, or Husband, Bridegroom, King, Shepherd or Rock of Israel became manifest as a physical form. And why not? Jesus was The Rock at one time.

I still see some here having Jesus and Gods Spirit as two different Spirits (or in Paidion's case the same One, yet not), so still the verses noted here by Dizerner would suggest there is Only One Spirit. But i have to get going know, have a Good and Godly day!

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darinhouston
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Re: Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

Post by darinhouston » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:55 pm

JR, how can Jesus be indwelt by God and be God at the same time? Do you believe there is anything divine or pre-existent about Jesus beyond this Spirit which indwelt Him? In other words, do you believe that He only pre-existed the incarnation in the form of that Spirit of God which indwelt Him?


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Re: Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

Post by Paidion » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:07 pm

Dizerner to me wrote:How do you handle a distinguishing of personality? You seem to see that Christ is distinguished yet in unity with the Father, so you don't see Christ as "an extension of the Father's personality" but an actual divine person. How do you explain the Spirit of God being described as the Spirit of Christ as well? How can two people have only one "extension"?
The Father and the Son are two distinct Persons, though they are also One in purpose, love, and all other divine attributes. The Son is Another exactly like the Father. He is the exact imprint of the Father's essence (Heb 1:3). They share the same spirit, and they extend this their shared spirit into the hearts of the faithful. So Paul wrote of "the spirit of God" as well as "the spirit of Christ."

Jesus said these words to Judas (not Iscariot):

If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. (John 14:23)

How do the Father and the Son come and make their home with those who love Jesus? The Father is in heaven, and the Son is seated at his right hand.
The answer: They extend their shared spirit into those who love Jesus.

I might add, that when Jesus was on earth, his spirit was confined to his body. When the Holy Spirit descended upon Him, it was the spirit of the Father alone.
Jesus said these words:
But I am telling you the truth. It is to your benefit that I go away, for if I do not go away, the advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send it to you. (John 16:7)

I think it is universally accepted that the advocate is the spirit of God and/or Jesus. Why could the spirit of Jesus not come until after his death? Because prior to his death, it was confined to his body. But afterward, after He BECAME a life-giving spirit (1 Cor 15:45), He could extend Himself by means of his spirit to any location that He wished.
Paidion

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Re: Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

Post by jriccitelli » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:36 pm

JR, how can Jesus be indwelt by God and be God at the same time?
Its very easy, If you rephrase it: 'How can God be indwelt by God and be God at the same time?'
If The Shepherd of Israel wanted to indwell a body why not?
If the Savior of Israel wanted to indwell a body, why not?
If The Lord of Israel wanted to indwell a body why not?
If The Father of Israel wanted to indwell a body why not?
If The King of Israel wanted to indwell a body why not?
If The Helper of Israel wanted to indwell a body why not?
If The Peace of Israel and Jacob wanted to indwell a body why not?
(If God wanted to indwell you and be God at the same time, He can)
Do you believe there is anything divine or pre-existent about Jesus beyond this Spirit which indwelt Him?
I suppose you might say only the thought of Jesus existed before Abraham, as in 'before Abraham was born, I am' / 'you loved me before the creation of the world' and other than His Angelic appearances and Christophanies, we don’t believe the body Jesus appeared any earlier than when He was born of Mary. But He did say 'And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began' and 'You are from below; I am from above' and 'all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together' the things with God above and in His presence do not have natural origins. And yes everything about Jesus speaks of God. Why can't God create Himself a body and indwell it, He created everything else?
In other words, do you believe that He only pre-existed the incarnation in the form of that Spirit of God which indwelt Him?
Yes He pre-existed the incarnation, but not as you said 'in the form of that Spirit of God', rather He is The Spirit of God. God is God, like you said previously: 'he is spirit not that he has a spirit'.

There is no part of God that is not Living, Alive, Thinking, Being, Able and Awesome.

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Homer
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Re: Holy Spirit as connection to Jesus

Post by Homer » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:36 pm

Hi Paidion,

You wrote:
How do the Father and the Son come and make their home with those who love Jesus? The Father is in heaven, and the Son is seated at his right hand.
The answer: They extend their shared spirit into those who love Jesus.
Earlier in this thread I asked, without receiving a reply:
Anyway, for starters I would ask the question differently: how is Jesus or the Father in us or with us in any real sense? In Matt. 18:20 Jesus promised the He would be in the midst of His gathered people. Did He merely mean in thought, or sympathy, or a Clintonesque sense as in "I feel your pain"? Or as an impersonal power or sense? Is his "personality" with us, whatever that means? Or is He really with us (and in us) in a personal sense through a personal Spirit?
So He is not with His people in any personal way if the Spirit is impersonal. What exactly is the Spirit? You have said it is the personality of the Father and the Son. Definition of personality:
"the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character". Example: "she had a sunny personality that was very engaging"
Do I have it right, that this is what you believe the Holy Spirit amounts to? Or is it some sort of power or force?

And you wrote:
But I am telling you the truth. It is to your benefit that I go away, for if I do not go away, the advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send it to you. (John 16:7)
What justification do you have for changing a personal pronoun (autos, masculine third person singular) into an it?

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