Sinner's Prayer

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darinhouston
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Sinner's Prayer

Post by darinhouston » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:35 pm

First off, I dislike the term "Sinner's Prayer." I think of it more as a "vow" (as in a wedding vow).

But, I don't really like the content of the actual prayers folks usually use either. I'd love to get some collaborative editing or alternative versions of prayers to walk a seeker through.

I particularly dislike the notion that we "accept Jesus into our heart as our own personal savior."

Here's a starter....
God, I believe that you are the only true god, and that all which exists comes from and depends upon you. I realize that all of Creation has fallen short of your expectations, and that this includes me and my own thoughts and actions. I realize that this stands in the way of our relationship and deprives me of a full relationship with you now and at the end of this life. I believe that you sent your Son, Jesus, to suffer and to die on my behalf and I believe He defeated death and was brought back to life just as I can be. I recognize Jesus as the rightful ruler of all Creation, and am willing now to bend my knee to Him and His ways. Please forgive my shortcomings and disobedience, rescue me from this fallen condition, and restore our relationship through my loyalty to Jesus. I ask that you provide me with Jesus’ Holy Spirit to comfort and commune with me and to equip and enable me to live fully now and to continue in His service to obey you and do your will for the rest of my life.
Please edit or suggest variations or alternatives.

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Homer
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Re: Sinner's Prayer

Post by Homer » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:11 am

Hi Darrin,

Prayer is a good thing, but I find it interesting that nowhere in the New Testament (unless I am mistaken) is anyone ever told to pray at (or for) conversion. It does not seem to be hinted at, or to be any part on the conversion process, if that is what it might be called. I believe Peter (1 Peter 3:21) indicated that our baptism is our "sinner's prayer". This idea is well attested, most recently, as the practice of the earliest Christians in "Pagan Christianity" by Viola and Barna.

I believe the best biblical support they have for "ask Jesus into your heart" is Rev. 3:20:

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

Given the nature of The Revelation, this verse is not very strong support for the practice, especially since the Apostles and early Christians seemed to make no use of it.

You wrote:
I ask that you provide me with Jesus’ Holy Spirit .....
This strikes me as unnecessary, given that the indwelling of the Spirit is promised to those who repent and are baptized. I'm wondering if we should ask God to do something for us that He seems to have promised He would do contingent upon our taking Him as Lord and Savior?

God bless, Homer

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TK
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Re: Sinner's Prayer

Post by TK » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:40 am

It's funny- I was thinking this very thing the other day after I listened to a message encouraging us to share our faith more than we do. I had similar thoughts to Homer about the dearth of "sinners prayers" in the NT (maybe the publican in the temple is an exception).

I dont think a prayer is necessary at all. I think an acknowledgment of Jesus as Lord, with repentance, and a resultant choice to be a disciple is what is required. In the NT, baptism was the immediate symbol of this turning. Some would say an indispensable symbol.

A year or so ago I read "The Divine Conspiracy" by Dallas Willard and I believe he talked about this- the idea that in the NT, people simply believed and became disciples, marked by baptism.

in the movie "The Robe" the main character made the following statement: "From this day forward, I am enlisted in His service. I offer Him my fortune, my sword, and my life. And this I pledge to you on my honor as a Roman." I think, had this really happened, that this statement, in lieu of a prayer, would have sealed the deal.

TK

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Suzana
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Re: Sinner's Prayer

Post by Suzana » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:48 am

I imagine the practice of the 'sinners prayer' might have developed to comply with Romans 10:9-10, and perhaps just evolved to encompass basic doctrines.

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. (NASB)

I know when I formally became a Christian as a teenager, we didn't have a sinner's prayer, but at water baptism each person was asked if they confessed Jesus as Lord (or words to that effect), just prior to being dunked.
Suzana
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If a man cannot be a Christian in the place he is, he cannot be a Christian anywhere. - Henry Ward Beecher

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darinhouston
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Re: Sinner's Prayer

Post by darinhouston » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:42 am

Great discussion -- I agree with everything here so far, and I do like the idea of just adding a bit of formality to the baptism so it is memorable and one has gone through this thought and remembers it sealed with the dunking - my effort was to eject baggage of councils and creeds, but to retain the essential things that are in fact critical to one going forward as a Christian. I believe implicit even in Romans 10:9 is the basic concept that Christianity grows out of Jewish monotheism, etc., and it would be a good thing at a memorial event to proclaim such.

Perhaps, it should not be a prayer but a credal statement, but then you adopt credalism in a fashion.

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Homer
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Re: Sinner's Prayer

Post by Homer » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:33 am

I think Suzana nailed it when she wrote:
at water baptism each person was asked if they confessed Jesus as Lord (or words to that effect), just prior to being dunked.
An essay by Jim Baird, Baptism and its Substitutes as Rituals of Initiation in American Protestantism, delves into the subject much more thoroughly than Viola and Barna do in Pagan Christianity. Baird traces the evolution of the rituals to the heirs of the Puritans through the evangelism/revivals of early America. It seems to have evolved from the "mourner's bench" to the "anxious seat" to "coming down the aisle" (alter call, Billy Sunday's "hit the sawdust trail", which involved shaking Sunday's hand and signing a decision card). This became something of a sacrament. The origin of the "prayer of faith" then developed. Some think this originated with Billy Graham but the beginning of the practice is difficult to trace.

These substitute rituals were seen to fill a need in the convert and the church in knowing when a conversion had taken place. Perhaps baptism wasn't convenient enough, but baptism is a visible, definite act, and biblical, where the others are not.

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TK
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Re: Sinner's Prayer

Post by TK » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:28 pm

I listened to a CD of Andy Stanley (Charles' son) giving a talk about baptism- he said that it should be the equivalent of taking a full page ad out in the local paper declaring yourself to be a follower of Christ.

At his church in Atlanta, each baptism is preceded by a videotaped testimony(presumably for time reasons) of the person being baptized, including a declaration along the lines of what Suzana said.

TK

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Homer
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Re: Sinner's Prayer

Post by Homer » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:07 pm

Hi TK,

You wrote:
each baptism is preceded by a videotaped testimony(presumably for time reasons) of the person being baptized,
In his essay Baird also described the way the convert's "testimony" became a part of the conversion ritual. The Puritans believed that the church must be restricted to only the truly converted and confession and baptism were inadequate testimony in their minds. Being Calvinist, they expected people to be able to provide a narrative of their regeneration or conversion experience that was convincing enough to let them in. The practice today seems to be a holdover going back to the Puritans. A simple cofession of faith and repentance was enough for the apostles.

Jesus warned in a parable that we should not try to separate the tares (darnel, which looked very much like wheat) from the real thing while they grew together. The Puritans were trying get a jump on it and to separate them when the seeds sprouted.

I heard a story years ago about a man back in the frontier days who wanted to join the church, his motive being social. It was the "only game in town", so to speak. He made up a fantastic story of his conversion and the good folks welcomed him into the fold. After some time attending the church God began working on him and he got to the point where he truly wished to be a follower of Jesus. Feeling guilty, he confessed his made up story to the authorities of the church whereupon they kicked him out! So much for conversion testimonies.

Blesssings, Homer

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Suzana
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Re: Sinner's Prayer

Post by Suzana » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:23 pm

Homer wrote:I heard a story years ago about a man back in the frontier days who wanted to join the church, his motive being social. It was the "only game in town", so to speak. He made up a fantastic story of his conversion and the good folks welcomed him into the fold. After some time attending the church God began working on him and he got to the point where he truly wished to be a follower of Jesus. Feeling guilty, he confessed his made up story to the authorities of the church whereupon they kicked him out! So much for conversion testimonies.
I wouldn't like to be those church authorities standing before God on judgement day; hopefully they repented once they cooled down.
Is it known what became of the man?
Suzana
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If a man cannot be a Christian in the place he is, he cannot be a Christian anywhere. - Henry Ward Beecher

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Homer
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Re: Sinner's Prayer

Post by Homer » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:24 am

Hi Suzana,

The only information I have regarding the man is in the story I related. I heard it from a representative of a seminary in a presentation many years ago. He told the story with much more detail, something about the man claiming he had seen a bull with eyes of fire, but I do not recall the details very well nor any mention of what happened to the man in the story. The speaker was emphasizing the futility of requiring converts to have a convincing conversion narrative.

I have read of people back in the "revival" days about 200 years ago who were put under great pressure to have a "conversion experience" and yet, as much as they sought it, it never came. And many are said to have given up in despair, convinced by the teaching they heard that they were not part of the elect. This is contrary to Jesus' teaching that He will never turn away those who seek Him.

God bless, Homer

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