Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 1:00 am
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Hosted by Steve Gregg
https://theos.org:443/forum/
What do you mean translation considered?karen said" Abraham gave Melchizedek-King of Salem-Prince of Peace 10% of spoils (translation considered). Of any "increase" is how I personally believe it goes."
tithes of all the spoils he brought back which were taken from Sodom and Gomorrah (go back in the story to see who attacked who and why in gen14)Genesis 14:16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people. ...
14:20 And he gave him tithes of all.
Abraham’s Tithe to Melchizedek most likely came from an Arab War CustomGenesis 14:21 And the king of Sodom said to Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to yourself.
Hebrews. 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils
What is tithe to you? Is it a mandatory 10%, 20%, or 23 1/3rd%? Tithe means 10% but how many tithes did the law require? the answer is 3 tithes but what one do you follow and why not all 3?karen said"To donate or Pay a membership to a personal concern, I do not consider to be a tithing but an assistance in keeping a good thing going and I should hope that the receiving party already has a good handle on what is."
Taken from God’s Plan for Giving, John MacArthur, Moody Press, 1985, page 76.John MacArthur “So when someone says the Jew gave ten percent, that isn’t true. The Jew gave twenty-three percent to begin with. It was for the poor people, the widows, and people who didn’t have anything to eat. So they were funding the people who ran the government, which were the Levites; they were providing for national feasts through the festival tithe; and they gave for the welfare program. All this was funding for the national entity. All three of these were taxation, not freewill giving to God. Tithing was always taxation so that the programs of the government could run: the priestly program, the national religious program, and the welfare program.”
I’m not sure if you are saying Steve Gregg makes a lot of money or he should make a lot of money. I don’t think he makes a lot of money he works for free. And if you are saying he should make more I would say he and everyone should make what God wants to give him no more no less.karen said "I do not see anything wrong with Steve Gregg having made a lot more money at what he has."
For those churches who do teach this doctrine, I do think it stumbles people. It can stumble someone new because it's usually mentioned in every service. You know, you would think they would at least mention some of the things that fall under the category "teach all things I [Jesus] have commanded". But I notice that those are usually the things that get skipped, where tithing is always mentioned. I can see how this would turn people away who are wise enough to see through this thinly veiled scheme. I have also seen this doctrine of tithing hurt people who were in the church. People who were already in financial trouble but were basically told to give to God first. And that means tithe to "us" ("us" being the facility that directly benefits from such funds). The elders who espouse this doctrine say to just give and trust God to pay your bills. Interestingly enough, these "elders" don't have this kind of faith, otherwise they would be asking God for their tithes to come in, and not trying to guilt it out of people. Sometimes leading them down a road of financial ruin.SamMcNear wrote: I think the teachings of tithing as far as it is mandatory for Christians today, makes people turn away from accepting Christ. How One of the #1 reasons people don't want to go to church is because they think preachers only want your money. I know a lot of believe comes from word of faith TV shows, it also comes from the teaching of tithing. If the teaching of tithing is truth then it wouldn't turn people away. If the teachings of tithing, as far as it is mandatory for Christians today, is not Gods truth like those TV shows asking for faith pledges or using God kingdom as a den of thieves, then it is only hindering the growth of the kingdom of God.
I think they push it because:SamMcNear wrote: My question is since the teaching of tithing is not taught for the New Testament believer why do we still push this false doctrine in our churches as such? How can we stop it?
If find this the most troubling aspect. Rather than teach people to simply be giving they focus the giving towards a particular ministry or institution.And that means tithe to "us" ("us" being the facility that directly benefits from such funds).
If God tells you to do this personally then it's Entirely personal.To pay a tithe or not to pay a tithe, and on what portion is one to tithe and how much? Entirely personal.
You would have to ask God, but the Bible tells us some of where He wants us to give. He tells us to give to the poor, widows, and orphans to mention a few.To whom would one pay this tithe if one were to decide to pay a personal tithe if any?....
This sounds like to me that you are giving to the wrong thing or cause. Did God tell you to give and trust the LDS leaders with your money? or does God tell us in His word that we are responsible to whom we give? I think if you can't trust to whom you are giving then God doesn't want you to give to them. We are to be good stewards with Gods money. We aren't to throw it to whom we don't trust or cast our pearls before swine. If to whom you are giving doesn't use it for good but uses it for their personal profit or gain then pull out and give to those who really need or use money for good.I was thinking that I would prefer these funds to be more of a public holding than what is concidered not a private secret matter of church buisiness concern only. I very much disagree with this as a tithe payer, and have always resented the big houses and travel perdiams of not only our LDS leaders, but of their personal families as well. Undisclosed and unlawfull use of tithes rendered by promises made that can not be varified in this life time almost a Priestcraft level mischief. Our General Authorities recieve funds undisclosed and also distrubute funds throughout our stakes and wards I myself see pilferred and just frittered away on the needless whims of their self appointed and unvoted for local budget spenders.
The blessings from giving often is mistaken as the blessings of tithing. Just because you are blessed doesn't mean that blessing is from tithing.My paying a tithing has been a blessed practice unto myself and my personal life.
Karen, I think you may have a bigger issue than to tithe or not to tithe. If you can't trust your church leaders it sounds like it's time for you to rethink who you should have leading you. What else don't you trust your LDS leaders with? What other secret are they holding from you? You are right that nothing the church does with money should be secret. I would even take that a step further and say nothing the church does should be secret unless it comes to personal counseling and maybe a few other simular things.But to see it just eaten up and frittered away by a negligent lay pretended authority at large sickens my pretended faith in it.