How can people do good?

psimmond · Post by **psimmond** » Thu May 15, 2014 5:51 pm

I'm going to try to be a referee here--I think you're both right. People can be good (Prov 13:22, 14:14, 19) and only God is good (Mar 10:18).

How can this be?

What is murder? Is it the unlawful taking of life or is it hating one's brother?

Jesus expanded the definition of various words to make clear to his audience that there is a large chasm between humanity's imperfection and God's perfection; he didn't come to do away with the old definitions.

Paul attempts something similar when he says "For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." 1 Cor 1:25.

So compared to God, none of us are good; but from a human standpoint, we are good or bad depending on the overflow of our heart. (Luke 6:45)

Paidion · Post by **Paidion** » Thu May 15, 2014 6:52 pm

There are many cases of non-Christians who have risked their lives to save the life of others, or who have even lost their lives in their attempts to save the lives of others. If that is not "unconditionally loving good", then I have no idea of what you,Ken, understand "unconditionally loving good" to be.

Whenever I bring an example to show that those without the spirit of God can do good, you simply deny that what they do is, in fact, good.

It's like a person who emphatically believes that it is impossible for a chimpanzee to talk. Display a talking chimpanzee to the man, and he is able to hold on to his view by declaring that the talking creature I have shown him is not a chimpanzee. If you ask him how he knows it is not a chimpanzee, he answers, "I know it is not, because it is impossible for a chimpanzee to talk.

psimmond · Post by **psimmond** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:28 am

Paidion, I agree. If we take a verse by itself, like "all our righteous acts are like filthy rags" and try to apply it out of its context in a universal way, it leads to absurdity. It seems that those who were heavily influenced by Augustine's view of original sin, like Luther and Calvin (and Watchman Nee) failed to make this distinction.

Paidion · Post by **Paidion** » Fri May 16, 2014 4:01 pm

That's right Mr. Simmond. By the way, what is your first name? Peter? Paul?

psimmond · Post by **psimmond** » Fri May 16, 2014 6:33 pm

Believe it or not, my name is Paidion. Just kidding

My name is Peter Simmonds. I often use psimmond as my username because when I first started using the internet, back in '92, my professor told us how to create an email account for his class--first letter of your first name and your last name (but no more than 8 characters). How about you? What's your first name?

Paidion · Post by **Paidion** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:38 pm

I've tried to keep it out of the forums, but a number of people have already found out because of some events which I have recounted where someone has called me "Don". So that's it; officially "Donald", but my friends and relatives call me "Don". Very close older friends call me "Donny". The name "Donald" is a good Scotch name; my maternal grandmother was Rachel Ross—who, prior coming to this continent, lived on the Isle of Skye in Scotland.

One lady from United States asked me my name, and I told her "Don".
"Hmmm..." she replied. That' an unusual name for a man. (She thought I had said "Dawn"). So I spelled it for her: D-o-n. "Oh," she exclaimed, "you mean 'Dahn''."

Well, that's U.S. pronunciation. You can always tell whether a person has been raised in the U.S. or Canada by asking him to pronounce the word "shone". The person raised in the U.S. pronounces it so as to rhyme with "bone". The person raised in Canada or Britain pronounces it so as to rhyme with "gone". I have asked many people from both the U.S. and Canada, and have yet to encounter an exception to this rule.

kenblogton · Post by **kenblogton** » Sat May 17, 2014 6:33 pm

Reply to Paidion Thursday May 15 7:42pm
There are many cases of non-Christians who have risked their lives to save the life of others, or who have even lost their lives in their attempts to save the lives of others. If that is not "unconditionally loving good", then I have no idea of what you,Ken, understand "unconditionally loving good" to be.
Whenever I bring an example to show that those without the spirit of God can do good, you simply deny that what they do is, in fact, good.

I do NOT say that non-Christians who have risked their lives for others did not do unconditionally loving good. They may have been inspired by God - I don't know, and neither do you - only God knows. What I do know is that Jesus tells us no one is good but God, and that without Him, the Holy Spirit sent by God after Jesus, we can do nothing good.
From my own life, I can think of many good things I did before becoming a believer that I and others thought were good, but I know at those times that I felt I deserved at least a thank-you. Unconditionally loving good means it is a gift with no strings attached - not even a thank-you required, and that when people see it, they ought praise God, not the person doing the deed.
kenblogton

Paidion · Post by **Paidion** » Sat May 17, 2014 6:52 pm

What I do know is that Jesus tells us no one is good but God...

Jesus prefaced this with the words, "Why do you call me good?" So do you believe that Jesus was saying the He was NOT good?

dseusy · Post by **dseusy** » Mon May 19, 2014 2:00 pm

Kenblogton wrote,

I agree with what you say. My point is that it is impossible to do so in our own strength - it takes Holy Spirit inspiration (Christ working in us).

I agree with you that it is impossible to do so in our own strength... and I believe the Bible takes it farther- based on the definition of love, that it never fails, and that only God is good, truly good- we as humans cannot love in an unfailing and unconditional way... even with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit- not that it is past God to do anything, but He already stated in His unchanging word that if we say we have no sin we lie. If we have sin, we cannot be unfailing. If we isolate it to just a one time H.S. inspired event, then we have to discount the unfailing aspect of love itself, right? Also, God IS love- I believe it states IS, rather than HAS, because love is not a separate item/entity/action. Only God is unfailing, and only God IS love. Thoughts?

dseusy · Post by **dseusy** » Mon May 19, 2014 2:29 pm

Paidion wrote,

Whenever I bring an example to show that those without the spirit of God can do good, you simply deny that what they do is, in fact, good.

Couldn't this deed or any other deed be done for the wrong reason, and therefore be corrupted by the wrong motive for doing the deed?

But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. 1 Corinthians 4:5

If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 1 Corinthians 3:12, 13

“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward." Matthew 6

Prayer is wonderful, but when it is done for the wrong reason, it ceases to be wonderful- because of the motive.

Other examples:
Proverbs 16:2
Ecclesiastes 12:13, 14
Matthew 6:1
1 Thessalonians 2:4
Colossians 3:23
James 4/James 1:14, 15

Paidion, what is your definition of good?

The Narrow Path Ministries

How can people do good?

Re: How can people do good?

Re: How can people do good?

Re: How can people do good?

Re: How can people do good?

Re: How can people do good?

Re: How can people do good?

Re: How can people do good?

Re: How can people do good?

Re: How can people do good?

Re: How can people do good?