Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

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JacobMartinMertens
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Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Tue May 10, 2016 12:14 pm

God has made many covenants with man. I believe Jesus observed and taught the Law. Should Jews and Gentiles observe the commands of Jesus to include those found in the entirety of His earthly ministry?

The following link is where this question was asked of Steve Gregg on The Narrow Path www.thenarrowpath.com this morning. Start at or before 18:01.

http://media.theos.org/Steve%20Gregg/Ra ... 160510.mp3
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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jaydam
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Re: Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

Post by jaydam » Tue May 10, 2016 1:47 pm

At the time of Christ's life, he was a Jew living under the Law, amidst other Jews still under the Law - as he had yet to institute the new covenant.

So his Law following, and even advocation to people such as the healed leper, would be examples of living within the old dynamics into which he arrived, but not to be understood to mean that the Law carries over.

Because Christ commanded the healed leper to go offer at the temple, would you look to have a modern day temple built so a healed leper today could go to the temple to give an offering to fulfill this command of Christ?

It seems from your last call to Steve that you are conflicted in this area. I wish you well on your theological journey. I have my own areas I also am journeying on.


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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Tue May 10, 2016 1:54 pm

jaydam wrote:At the time of Christ's life, he was a Jew living under the Law, amidst other Jews still under the Law - as he had yet to institute the new covenant.

So his Law following, and even advocation to people such as the healed leper, would be examples of living within the old dynamics into which he arrived, but not to be understood to mean that the Law carries over.

Because Christ commanded the healed leper to go offer at the temple, would you look to have a modern day temple built so a healed leper today could go to the temple to give an offering to fulfill this command of Christ?

It seems from your last call to Steve that you are conflicted in this area. I wish you well on your theological journey. I have my own areas I also am journeying on.


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Jesus still is a Jew, and He said He did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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steve
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Re: Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

Post by steve » Tue May 10, 2016 3:48 pm

Jacob,

In one of your emails to me today, you say you hope you are not a bother. Are you serious? You have emailed me no less than nine times today [update: before the day ended the number was twelve], in addition to calling my program this morning and also yesterday afternoon (where I gave a third of the hour to answering the same question that you seem to be asking still. How could this not be a bother?

I am swamped with emails every day, and have limited time to read them. Many of your emails appear to be later drafts of earlier ones. Let me make a suggestion: before writing or calling, identify in your mind exactly what it is you want to ask. Do not send me several drafts of the same question, while you are still trying to decide how to say it. Work out the final draft on your own and then send that to me one time. I am learning not to even open your emails, when they simply repeat a rewording of the question found in the previous ones.

This morning several callers were not able to be on (they were waiting on hold) because you called again with the same question I have answered for you previously. Since you do not apparently care for my answer, why not ask someone else? You are more than welcome to refute something in my answer that you find flawed, but please do not continue to call simply to ask the same question.

Blessings!

Steve

dizerner

Re: Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

Post by dizerner » Tue May 10, 2016 4:03 pm

JacobMartinMertens wrote:
jaydam wrote:At the time of Christ's life, he was a Jew living under the Law, amidst other Jews still under the Law - as he had yet to institute the new covenant.

So his Law following, and even advocation to people such as the healed leper, would be examples of living within the old dynamics into which he arrived, but not to be understood to mean that the Law carries over.

Because Christ commanded the healed leper to go offer at the temple, would you look to have a modern day temple built so a healed leper today could go to the temple to give an offering to fulfill this command of Christ?

It seems from your last call to Steve that you are conflicted in this area. I wish you well on your theological journey. I have my own areas I also am journeying on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jesus still is a Jew, and He said He did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets.
I have bad news for you. Jacob the only way for you to fulfill the Law is for you to die. You may try to weasel out of that by using a Jesus died for you card, but you want Jesus to die for you and yet you still live. It's one or the other and I believe that's why you have this mighty internal conflict in you. Your old man wants to set up a system of works righteousness, but God wants you to die, just die, get out of the way, just stop trying to replace the work of Jesus, and when you do that, Jesus will live again in you which is what we all need—not demands, just Jesus living again in us.

The Law commands your death. There is no place in the Law to get out of it, no loophole you can find anywhere, the law condemns you to death and that's why it's a ministry of condemnation.

Have you died yet? Jesus stands with arms outstretched just to let you die in him, because the Law commands your death.

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Tue May 10, 2016 4:24 pm

steve wrote:Jacob,

In one of your emails to me today, you say you hope you are not a bother. Are you serious? You have emailed me no less than nine times today, in addition to calling my program this morning and also yesterday afternoon (where I gave a third of the hour to answering the same question that you seem to be asking still. How could this not be a bother?

I am swamped with emails every day, and have limited time to read them. Many of your emails appear to be later drafts of earlier ones. Let me make a suggestion: before writing or calling, identify in your mind exactly what it is you want to ask. Do not send me several drafts of the same question, while you are still trying to decide how to say it. Work out the final draft on your own and then send that to me one time. I am learning not to even open your emails, when they simply repeat a rewording of the question found in the previous ones.

This morning several callers were not able to be on (they were waiting on hold) because you called again with the same question I have answered for you previously. Since you do not apparently care for my answer, why not ask someone else? You are more than welcome to refute something in my answer that you find flawed, but please do not continue to call simply to ask the same question.

Blessings!

Steve
Because you are a Christian teacher and I am a brother in Christ.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Tue May 10, 2016 4:26 pm

dizerner wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:
jaydam wrote:At the time of Christ's life, he was a Jew living under the Law, amidst other Jews still under the Law - as he had yet to institute the new covenant.

So his Law following, and even advocation to people such as the healed leper, would be examples of living within the old dynamics into which he arrived, but not to be understood to mean that the Law carries over.

Because Christ commanded the healed leper to go offer at the temple, would you look to have a modern day temple built so a healed leper today could go to the temple to give an offering to fulfill this command of Christ?

It seems from your last call to Steve that you are conflicted in this area. I wish you well on your theological journey. I have my own areas I also am journeying on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jesus still is a Jew, and He said He did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets.
I have bad news for you. Jacob the only way for you to fulfill the Law is for you to die. You may try to weasel out of that by using a Jesus died for you card, but you want Jesus to die for you and yet you still live. It's one or the other and I believe that's why you have this mighty internal conflict in you. Your old man wants to set up a system of works righteousness, but God wants you to die, just die, get out of the way, just stop trying to replace the work of Jesus, and when you do that, Jesus will live again in you which is what we all need—not demands, just Jesus living again in us.

The Law commands your death. There is no place in the Law to get out of it, no loophole you can find anywhere, the law condemns you to death and that's why it's a ministry of condemnation.

Have you died yet? Jesus stands with arms outstretched just to let you die in him, because the Law commands your death.
Are you resurrected? I have no idea if I ever have been.

Jesus saves while the Law condemns. But here we are talking about if as Christians we should obey God's commands.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

dizerner

Re: Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

Post by dizerner » Tue May 10, 2016 7:14 pm

JacobMartinMertens wrote:Are you resurrected? I have no idea if I ever have been.
Yes! I've died and been resurrected with Christ, because Scripture promises my faith expressed in a prayer of trust to YHWH has accomplished what the Law and my flesh could never do through a once-for-all perfect sacrifice!

You can also experience this resurrection life, by a simple humble prayer to God the Father expressing a trust in Christ to save you from sin and death, that you are bound to! A simple prayer similar to

"YHWH I believe you have sent Christ to fulfill the Law on my behalf, not abolish it. You command me to reckon myself crucified and dead in Christ and my sins forgiven by his blood, and when I do, you fulfill the spirit of the Law instead of the letter of the Law in my heart; because I know that no amount of feasts, or sabbaths, or sacrifices, can ever make me love you, God, the way I should and my neighbor as myself. And I know that just one infraction anywhere has made me worthy of nothing but death, for the soul that sins must die! But right now I express faith and trust in Christ to be my perfect life, and my perfect death, that fulfills the Law, instead of me abolishing the Law which commands my death, by me continuing to try to keep it, and not killing myself as the Law commands me. Now that I trust Christ be my all in all, and perfect Torah keeper, you have promised his life will resurrect me by the glory of the Father, and I will walk in newness of life, and the blinders of religion will fall from my eyes as they did from the apostle Paul's, and I will no longer be in the flesh that can never please you, but by faith in the one promised seed of Christ I shall escape the curse of the Law that condemns me forever, and find the blessing of Christ's life in my heart. Amen!"

If you pray something like this with a sincere heart of faith, God promises that you have experienced his resurrection afterwards. Then you should also go be baptized to fulfill all the Law, as Jesus himself said he was baptized to fulfill all the Law. If you've previously been baptized without an understanding of what it means, and that it fulfills all the Law, it is perfectly okay to be baptized again, this time with your faith in Jesus. I was baptized religiously as a child, but when I realized Jesus called me to follow him of my own choice, I was baptized again with a proper understanding that it fulfilled the Law by my death in Christ.
Jesus saves while the Law condemns. But here we are talking about if as Christians we should obey God's commands.
Of course everyone should obey God's commands, but not the external religious ceremonial Laws that Paul said were a shadow of spiritual realities, but the substance was the Person of Jesus Christ himself. I recommend you study Hebrews very diligently to see how Scripture teaches that. Also we don't obey God's commands to love by the Law, for the Law is for the wicked man and the Law is a ministry of death, and the Law is a tutor to Christ and the Law shows us our bankruptcy and inability. We need a resurrection miracle to ever obey the Law after the spirit and not the letter, and to really love as we should.

God bless and I hope and pray the Spirit guides you into all truth.

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Tue May 10, 2016 7:25 pm

dizerner wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:Are you resurrected? I have no idea if I ever have been.
Yes! I've died and been resurrected with Christ, because Scripture promises my faith expressed in a prayer of trust to YHWH has accomplished what the Law and my flesh could never do through a once-for-all perfect sacrifice!

You can also experience this resurrection life, by a simple humble prayer to God the Father expressing a trust in Christ to save you from sin and death, that you are bound to! A simple prayer similar to

"YHWH I believe you have sent Christ to fulfill the Law on my behalf, not abolish it. You command me to reckon myself crucified and dead in Christ and my sins forgiven by his blood, and when I do, you fulfill the spirit of the Law instead of the letter of the Law in my heart; because I know that no amount of feasts, or sabbaths, or sacrifices, can ever make me love you, God, the way I should and my neighbor as myself. And I know that just one infraction anywhere has made me worthy of nothing but death, for the soul that sins must die! But right now I express faith and trust in Christ to be my perfect life, and my perfect death, that fulfills the Law, instead of me abolishing the Law which commands my death, by me continuing to try to keep it, and not killing myself as the Law commands me. Now that I trust Christ be my all in all, and perfect Torah keeper, you have promised his life will resurrect me by the glory of the Father, and I will walk in newness of life, and the blinders of religion will fall from my eyes as they did from the apostle Paul's, and I will no longer be in the flesh that can never please you, but by faith in the one promised seed of Christ I shall escape the curse of the Law that condemns me forever, and find the blessing of Christ's life in my heart. Amen!"

If you pray something like this with a sincere heart of faith, God promises that you have experienced his resurrection afterwards. Then you should also go be baptized to fulfill all the Law, as Jesus himself said he was baptized to fulfill all the Law. If you've previously been baptized without an understanding of what it means, and that it fulfills all the Law, it is perfectly okay to be baptized again, this time with your faith in Jesus. I was baptized religiously as a child, but when I realized Jesus called me to follow him of my own choice, I was baptized again with a proper understanding that it fulfilled the Law by my death in Christ.
Jesus saves while the Law condemns. But here we are talking about if as Christians we should obey God's commands.
Of course everyone should obey God's commands, but not the external religious ceremonial Laws that Paul said were a shadow of spiritual realities, but the substance was the Person of Jesus Christ himself. I recommend you study Hebrews very diligently to see how Scripture teaches that. Also we don't obey God's commands to love by the Law, for the Law is for the wicked man and the Law is a ministry of death, and the Law is a tutor to Christ and the Law shows us our bankruptcy and inability. We need a resurrection miracle to ever obey the Law after the spirit and not the letter, and to really love as we should.

God bless and I hope and pray the Spirit guides you into all truth.
The Law is about loving God and loving your neighbor. There is no reason for anyone to kill themselves. Killing oneself by the law is not an idea I am familiar with, nor do I want to be familiar with it. As for resurrection, a future resurrection among the righteous, a resurrection to life, is for all who believe on Christ for salvation. Baptism does not save anyone. It is a demonstration of having been saved or an outward profession of faith that therefore involves both salvation and a declaration of having been saved and justified. There are those who are resurrected and experience the second death. In these things I see resurrection as future but only for people who have physically died. The Law has never saved anyone. Jesus saves. The Law shows us our sin. Is it also for our obedience? What commands of God do you obey? Are any of them or none of them found in the Law? God bless you as you serve and obey Him. You should not think you are being perfected by the flesh when you obey Him, it is impossible. Make sure you know that you are only saved by grace through faith and not of works, by verifying it in reading Ephesians 2:8-9 NASB.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

dizerner

Re: Should we observe all the commands from Jesus' ministry?

Post by dizerner » Tue May 10, 2016 9:50 pm

JacobMartinMertens wrote:There is no reason for anyone to kill themselves.
I hope you didn't think I meant to physically suicide, but rather to accept God's decree of death as the wages of sin.
Killing oneself by the law is not an idea I am familiar with, nor do I want to be familiar with it.
Have you ever read the writings of Paul? He more than once states that the Law kills him spiritually and condemns him to death as well.

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