Is satan dumb?

Angels & Demons
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Homer
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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by Homer » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:05 am

Hi Paidion,

You wrote:
I think the worst view, a view that denigrates God's character, is the penal substitutionary view whose proponents declare that God was satisfied by punishing His Son in place of sinners, so that sinners wouldn't have to be punished. Can you imagine an earthly father who would obtain satisfaction from punishing one of his innocent children instead of the one who committed evil acts?
You can't understand it because you are not a Trinitarian. To me it is simple: the triune God suffered the punishment. He internalized it. And the Son suffered voluntarily without resistance.

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TheEditor
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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by TheEditor » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:07 am

I'm not sure i can even imagine an earthly father that would take upon himself the punishment his son deserved, but what a love that would be


Hi Dizerner,

Not trying to be snarky, but from this comment I conclude you do not have children. I can think of a great many parents that would willingly undergo any suffering for their children.

Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

dizerner

Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by dizerner » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:52 am

TheEditor wrote:
I'm not sure i can even imagine an earthly father that would take upon himself the punishment his son deserved, but what a love that would be


Hi Dizerner,

Not trying to be snarky, but from this comment I conclude you do not have children. I can think of a great many parents that would willingly undergo any suffering for their children.

Regards, Brenden.
This was actually the point I was trying to make by stating the opposite in a way that clearly showed it was untrue. How much more God's love, then, if we see Jesus as truly an expression of the Father and willingly taking our place. Sadly my own father was not like that, but if I did have children, you can be sure I would be. Blessings

Singalphile
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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by Singalphile » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:50 am

I'm not sure that we know much, if anything, about the devil's motives and history and so on. Only that he's a liar and murderer and we know what he seeks.

I'm reminded of what a character says in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader about the Dufflepods - "One minute they talk as if I ran everything and overheard everything and was extremely dangerous. The next moment they think they can take me in by tricks that a baby would see through."

I think we can probably all be "dumb" like that sometimes.

... and also, Lewis has the White Witch (a "Satan"-like character) ignorant of the "deeper magic" that results in Aslan's resurrection.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

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TheEditor
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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by TheEditor » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:39 pm

Hi Dizerner,

I understand. :(

As far as my personal view on Satan; I have never considered him "stupid", but perhaps mad. I am not of the school of thought that God created Satan as a "tester"--a tool for certain uses to be ultimately discarded like a worn out screwdriver. I think that he believes that he can win, but much like a child he throws the board over in his attempt to "win" the game. He must be able to have some knowledge of God's purposes. He became "enraged" when Jesus was taken back to Heaven (Rev. 12), he must of seen that as a defeat. So, he continues his assault. Maybe he is like Hitler in that oft-memed scene from "Downfall", only without the ability to recognize that the 'krieg ist verloren.'

Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

JonathanVaughan
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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by JonathanVaughan » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:38 am

This is an old thread, but there's something that hasn't been mentioned here as a possibility for why Satan first attempted to disqualify Jesus from the cross and then hastened his death on it. Consider the nature of temptation and the great advantages enjoyed by Satan. It does not matter much what sin Satan gets someone to commit, so long as one is in bondage to sin. In Jesus' case this is amplified, because any one sin would have disqualified him. The temptation in the desert and the incident with Peter both proved that Jesus is on his way to the cross. But were there still possibilities open to Satan? I think one should consider the nature of being betrayed and how it feels. Satan entered Judas to make certain this would happen, the disciples fled. All it would have taken is for Jesus to have entertained thoughts of their betrayal, how a sinless man like He was should not have to go to the cross for such ingrates, and there you could have the beginnings of pride, and thus of self-will that excluded that of the Father's. Add to this the scourging, the trial by insincere jews and carnal gentiles...

Granted, this is a desperate move on Satan's part, but the time was drawing short, wasn't it?

Jonathan Vaughan
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Grabber of My Children's Cheeks

crgfstr1
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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by crgfstr1 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:51 am

I wonder how much was due to pride? Pride can make even smart people do dumb things. Satan is evil too. Evil people do things that they enjoy in the short term but regret in the long term. Did Satan take pleasure in Jesus's pain? I think the other options that Satan offered Jesus he knew would only be short lived. I think it is the problem with instant versus long term gratification. God is long suffering. Is Satan?

Thanks it was an interesting question to think about and hear others thoughts.

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