When were the Angels created?

Angels & Demons
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SamMcNear
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When were the Angels created?

Post by SamMcNear » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:54 pm

Can anyone help me with this question? Here is what I got so far:

While the passages in Genesis don't mention the creation of angles, but mention only the making of the firmament, sun, moon, stars, and animals, it must be carefully marked by the reader that in Nehemiah 9:6 the objects of God’s making include the heavens, the heaven of heavens, and the earth, and everything contained in and on it, and the seas and everything they contain, as well as the hosts of heaven (probably angels).

The view I'm leaning toward -The angels which also were created (Psalms 148:2-5 and Ex 20:11) were witnesses of the creation of the foundations of the earth and shouted for joy. (Job 38:4-7) The time of their creation is never definitely specified, but I think it is most probable that it occurred in connection with the creation of the heavens in Genesis 1:1. It may be that God created the angels immediately after He had created the heavens and before He created the earth—for according to Job 38:4-7, “the sons of God shouted for joy” when He laid the foundations of the earth.

Other views:Some teach that angels were created on the second day of Creation. They see this reflected in Psalms 104 where we read in the third verse: "Who roofs His upper chambers with water," and in the following verse, "He makes His angels spirits…" therefore some concluded that the angels where created on the second day, the same day that God divided the waters, creating an "upper chambers with water."

In addition, in the description of the story of creation (Genesis 1), there’s an interesting lingual anomaly. After the first day of creation vs.5 "It was evening it was day, one day." After the succeeding days, verses 8, 13, 19, 23, and 31, "It was evening it was day, the second day... third day... fourth day... etc." Following this sequence, after the first day it should logically have said, "It was evening it was day, the first day"? Why "one day"? From this some say that the first day was a day of "oneness," when God was one and alone, for the angels, were created on the following day or later.

Others however, taught that angels were created on the fifth day. They point out that the words used in Genesis to describe the creation of the birds (on the fifth day) are similar to the words used by Isaiah to describe the angels (in Isaiah 6).

Perhaps it can be said that certain groups of angels were created on the second day of creation and others on the fifth. We may never know.


Nehemiah 9:6 You alone are the Lord; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You.

* Some, however, have pointed out what they perceive to be a serious “time problem” inherent with some of these viewpoints. Their suggestion is that if God had created angels on day one or day five of the Creation week, then there would not have been enough time for Satan to rebel against Jehovah and to be cast out of heaven (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6; Rev??) prior to the events recorded in Genesis 3.

* Those who contend that the angels were created prior to the first day of the Creation week and believe Satan is an angel do not believe that the texts in Genesis 2:1 and Exodus 20:11 are speaking of angelic beings.

My conclusion so far:

Nothing was with God before the creation in Genesis 1 so the angels had to be created after genesis 1. When? I’m not sure.
Last edited by SamMcNear on Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TK
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Re: When were the Angels created?

Post by TK » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:11 pm

Your post raises another question for me which I guess I have never considered:

Did God create heaven? (Not the "heavens" but "capital H" Heaven). If so, when? Or was Heaven always where God was (i.e. is it Heaven because God is there). If this is the case, then Heaven was always with God, which therefore was in the infinite past (or, as Paidion would say, from the beginning of time).

I guess I always assumed that angels were around before the creation of the physical universe, because I assumed that Heaven existed prior to the creation of the physical universe. My guess is that the Angels were created eons before the physical universe. Of course I could be dead wrong about that, and I wouldn't mind.

TK

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Paidion
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Re: When were the Angels created?

Post by Paidion » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:23 pm

As long as I remember, I have always thought that the angels were created prior to Genesis 1:1. The "beginning" in Gen 1:1 may refer to the beginning of the physical creation. It seems there is no record of any details concerning God's creation of spirit beings.

Some say that when God said, "Let's create man in our own image", He was addressing the angels, but I don't think this was the case; I think God was addressing His Son.

In your opinion, does the idea that God created the angels prior to His creation of physical matter and physical life contradict scripture in any respect?

Wow, just as I was about to post this, I noticed TK's post. I see he has made reference to the "physical universe". Are we on the same wave length or what?
Paidion

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SamMcNear
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Re: When were the Angels created?

Post by SamMcNear » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:53 pm

I can't find any scriptures saying that anything physical and spiritual was created before gen 1:1. Can you think of any?

If there are no scriptures I will have to side on the view angels were created between gen 1:1 and before the foundations of the earth but during the 6 days of creation.

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Re: When were the Angels created?

Post by Cheryl » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:46 pm

Follow-up question: Who are the devil's angels in the following texts? And when were they created?

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; Mt 25.41

"And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." Rev 12.9

(Should I post this as a new thread?)

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SamMcNear
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Re: When were the Angels created?

Post by SamMcNear » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:30 pm

I think the same time satan was created. I feel the time period for rev. 12:9 is at the time of Christs death and reserection.

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TK
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Re: When were the Angels created?

Post by TK » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:41 am

Sam wrote:
I can't find any scriptures saying that anything physical and spiritual was created before gen 1:1. Can you think of any?

If there are no scriptures I will have to side on the view angels were created between gen 1:1 and before the foundations of the earth but during the 6 days of creation.
Well, the Bible doesn't tell us everything, does it?

I am not sure why it is important to know exactly when the angels were created, other than from a purely academic standpoint. Where the Bible is not clear, there is room for speculating, just like we do when we try to figure out exactly what animals were on Noah's Ark, and who the people were that Cain was afraid of.

TK

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Paidion
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Re: When were the Angels created?

Post by Paidion » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:20 am

Sam wrote:I can't find any scriptures saying that anything physical and spiritual was created before gen 1:1. Can you think of any?

If there are no scriptures I will have to side on the view angels were created between gen 1:1 and before the foundations of the earth but during the 6 days of creation.
But neither can you find scriptures which indicate they were created between gen 1:1 and before the foundations of the earth but during the 6 days of creation. So on what basis do you side with the latter?
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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SamMcNear
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Re: When were the Angels created?

Post by SamMcNear » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:01 pm

I think the over all message of creation is that it was all done in 6 days.

The main reason I would like to figure it out is 3 fold

1. It would be interesting to know

2. It would put another hint into the debate of satan being an angel or just an evil spirit

3. I would like to know if there was anything besides God before gen 1:1

but we may never know :)

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TK
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Re: When were the Angels created?

Post by TK » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:13 pm

Sam wrote:
I would like to know if there was anything besides God before gen 1:1
Very good question indeed. I used to feel sorry for God sitting around all by Himself the untold quadrillions of years before He created the angels (and everything else).

But of course, God is self-sufficient, as Tozer explains here:

http://storage.cloversites.com/newlifem ... Holy-b.pdf

TK

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