i attend a rapidly growing charismatic church, that actually talks about sanctification, and i have seen real moves of the Spirit, but this last sunday one of the pastors was talking about "joels army" and said, now some people will tell you that this army is from hell, but right here it says "the Lords servants/army (somethin like that)" then he led everyone in a vow saying "i vow myself to Joel's army" and i was like, ok... you just said some people think that it is an army from hell, and he didnt give any more reasoning behind his/the churches view, so i walked out, and i love that church and the people in it, but for the past 3 weekends we didnt go one whole service without mentioning bob jones, and then i looked up more about the "Latter Rain" and i think its called dominionism, and i have read the book of Joel more to seek out what is true, but i feel that i am biased to my church because i have seen so many miracles out of it, and had some real life changing experiences there, so i would like to hear Steve's view and some other people's views on it, because i am emotionally attatched to this church and the people, so i want the truth without me thinking of all the people in my church who are all about this doctrine.
help a brother out!
in Christ, devin
"Joel's army" Gods army? or Plague?
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"Joel's army" Gods army? or Plague?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Devin,
The "Joel's Army" thing is a long-standing feature of the "Latter Rain Movement," of which Bob Jones is a part. William Branham was a leading figure in this movement in its beginnings, over half a century ago. It has enjoyed a resurgence in some undiscerning charismatic circles in the past two decades.
The expression, "His [the Lord's] army," in Joel 2:11, is employing a military metaphor in a description of a horrendous plague of locusts that swarmed Judah in the days of Joel. They are called, "the Lord's" because it is He who sent them against Judah as a judgment. In the description, they are called "a people" (2:2), but this is just symbolism. In fact, they are "like mighty men" (2:7). They aren't literally mighty men. That the "army" is the locust plague is stated plainly in Joel 2:25—
"...the consuming locust, the chewing locust, my great army which I sent among you."
Latter Rain people believe that this "army" is a reference to a company of Christian "overcomers" who will live in the last days and will spiritually subdue the powers of evil in the world. They call this group "the man-child company" and think that they are referred to in Revelation 12:1-6 as the "man child" (KJV). Many Latter Rain teachers believe that this company will actually receive their glorified bodies in this lifetime, and will be able to pass through solid walls and stuff like that. Obviously, they expect to be more mighty than Christ's apostles ever were.
Suffice it to say, there is no passage of scripture that presents such a vision, when exegeted properly in its context. But that doesn't matter to them. They get visions and revelations about the great end-times revival and the victory and exaltation of the overcomers. Compared to such spiritual visions, mere biblical exegesis seems merely stodgy and mundane.
This group should not be mistaken for the more orthodox, Calvinist, Postmillennial Reconstructionists. Their view is also called "dominion theology." They also anticipate a great victory for the Gospel in the end of history, but they don't resort to wild and arbitrary interpretations of scripture, as do the Latter Rain people, nor do they anticipate victory to be achieved through any supernatural phenomena other than the supernatural conversion of sinners through the Gospel. Though I am not in their camp, I have no disagreement with the Christian Reconstructionists that is more significant than my disagreement with any other Calvinists.
To put it succinctly—the "Latter Rain" movement is sort of goofy. It resorts to goofy exegesis of scripture and appeals to the most undiscerning members of the charismatic movement. It appeals both to the spiritual desire to see righteousness prevail in the earth, and to the carnal, elitist tendencies of those who crave greater personal significance...and those who would find it gratifying to dominate others. It is a shame that knowing and following Jesus as a faithful disciple isn't excitement enough for such people.
The "Joel's Army" thing is a long-standing feature of the "Latter Rain Movement," of which Bob Jones is a part. William Branham was a leading figure in this movement in its beginnings, over half a century ago. It has enjoyed a resurgence in some undiscerning charismatic circles in the past two decades.
The expression, "His [the Lord's] army," in Joel 2:11, is employing a military metaphor in a description of a horrendous plague of locusts that swarmed Judah in the days of Joel. They are called, "the Lord's" because it is He who sent them against Judah as a judgment. In the description, they are called "a people" (2:2), but this is just symbolism. In fact, they are "like mighty men" (2:7). They aren't literally mighty men. That the "army" is the locust plague is stated plainly in Joel 2:25—
"...the consuming locust, the chewing locust, my great army which I sent among you."
Latter Rain people believe that this "army" is a reference to a company of Christian "overcomers" who will live in the last days and will spiritually subdue the powers of evil in the world. They call this group "the man-child company" and think that they are referred to in Revelation 12:1-6 as the "man child" (KJV). Many Latter Rain teachers believe that this company will actually receive their glorified bodies in this lifetime, and will be able to pass through solid walls and stuff like that. Obviously, they expect to be more mighty than Christ's apostles ever were.
Suffice it to say, there is no passage of scripture that presents such a vision, when exegeted properly in its context. But that doesn't matter to them. They get visions and revelations about the great end-times revival and the victory and exaltation of the overcomers. Compared to such spiritual visions, mere biblical exegesis seems merely stodgy and mundane.
This group should not be mistaken for the more orthodox, Calvinist, Postmillennial Reconstructionists. Their view is also called "dominion theology." They also anticipate a great victory for the Gospel in the end of history, but they don't resort to wild and arbitrary interpretations of scripture, as do the Latter Rain people, nor do they anticipate victory to be achieved through any supernatural phenomena other than the supernatural conversion of sinners through the Gospel. Though I am not in their camp, I have no disagreement with the Christian Reconstructionists that is more significant than my disagreement with any other Calvinists.
To put it succinctly—the "Latter Rain" movement is sort of goofy. It resorts to goofy exegesis of scripture and appeals to the most undiscerning members of the charismatic movement. It appeals both to the spiritual desire to see righteousness prevail in the earth, and to the carnal, elitist tendencies of those who crave greater personal significance...and those who would find it gratifying to dominate others. It is a shame that knowing and following Jesus as a faithful disciple isn't excitement enough for such people.
Last edited by FAST WebCrawler [Crawler] on Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
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