To Affiliate or Not to Affiliate?

[RICHinCHRIST]

Hello everybody,

Any feedback anyone has on these issues would be greatly appreciated.

I've recently been approached with the possibility of joining the staff of an institutional church (Calvary Chapel denomination) as a worship leader/music director. However, I have come to some difficult ethical questions in my conscience about pursuing such a role. Perhaps some other opinions would help me think more holistically, since I have a tendency to be critical and analytical beyond normalcy at times.

I know the accepting of this position would have to ultimately be dependent upon 1) God opening the door, and 2) my conscience having a peace about it.


Some say, I am of Paul, and others I am of Apollos. Are you not carnal? (1 Cor 3:4)

My struggle is firstly about the idea of affiliating with an institutional, denominational church in the first place. I've personally witnessed the lack of unity among Christians from different churches, and I've seen that it is a terrible thing that unbelievers look upon and mock. Would affiliating with such an organization that follows a specific set of doctrinal points go beyond the realm of acceptance of all who call upon Jesus as Lord?

I have an idealistic hope for a unified Church (John 17:21), but it seems so far away from reality. Perhaps serving in an institutional church could be a good witness and opportunity to love people despite my disagreements with the organization's underlying foundational flaws.

Episcopality?

I don't agree with this church's episcopal form of government. I think it originated with the Catholic Church and I think there is a lot of weird politics involved in this type of framework. Since I see it as clearly unbiblical, is it bizarre to submit under such a concept?

However, I could also consider the example of David who submitted under Saul... and David had the right heart in it all despite his disagreements with the Lord's Anointed.

Corrupt Leadership

1) The first Assistant Pastor (the #2 underneath the mono-episcopate) was just fired (a month ago) due to some unmentioned sin regarding the "ruining of his family" (I'm guessing sexual?)

2) There was a former assistant pastor who also left recently because he thought the church's use of money (as directed by the mono-episcopate) was unwise.

Emotionalism

I don't mean over the top pseudo-charismatic antics. I'm referring to something I've noticed by querying those who have responded to altar calls. They said they responded to the call because they felt emotionally drawn by the music or by the pastor's insistence. In fact, I feel as though during the altar call the pastor barely speaks of the content of the gospel or of discipleship in these appeals to the congregation. Many people seem to respond to these "altar calls", but the size of the church doesn't seem to grow. My own sister according to the flesh went up to an altar call because of an emotional drawing and didn't understand one bit about repentance nor of her need to submit to Christ as Lord. There were no young Christians around to encourage her or pour into her after the few weeks she attended the church following her "altar call commitment". She is now living in unrepentant sin dating a non-Christian and doesn't want to go to church. However, she thinks she is a Christian. I don't see any biblical support for a sinner's prayer, nor do I see much fruit from these traditions. I'm not too much at peace being a part of this kind of process where I'd be playing music and influencing people to the possibility of leading them astray.

However, there's always the possibility of truly influencing people for the better through my gift of music. It is possible that a song could spark someone to a realization of their need for God or it could be a genuine witness of the truth. There is also a great opportunity to encourage committed disciples and to teach and admonish people through the music platform.

Freely you've received, freely give (Matt 10:8)

I know there is scriptural support for teachers of the Word to be supported... but what about worship leaders? There's nothing in the Bible regarding the support of offices in the Church (if there even are to be offices, in a political sense) other than elders or those who teach and labor in the Word. I don't feel completely at peace about being supported full-time for something that the Bible does not deem as required for a congregation who meets in Christ's name.

However, I'd never be able to focus solely on writing and arranging music as much as I would if I was to do it full-time. Perhaps it could be of God that He desires for me to bless the Church with my music gifts for a season in this regard.



These are just a few of my thoughts... I have a number of concerns which are even more practical in regards to my own calling and whether I want to focus full-time on writing music and leading worship or if I should focus more on Bible teaching and cross-cultural missions.

If you have any experiences in serving in an institutional church... good or bad... I'd be glad to hear about them.

Thanks

[TK]

Good post--

this is a tough one because no church is perfect (that I have found). but we are not to forsake gathering together.

i'll try to get one on my good friends who has been on a church staff to respond.

TK

[TK]

rich wrote:

I know the accepting of this position would have to ultimately be dependent upon 1) God opening the door, and 2) my conscience having a peace about it.

I meant to mention in my prior post that you might want to add a 3rd point, i.e. whether God is calling you to this position. I am sure you know this already, but even if doors open up, etc it doesn't necessarily mean that is what God wants us to do. It might and it might not.

TK

[RICHinCHRIST]

rich wrote:

I know the accepting of this position would have to ultimately be dependent upon 1) God opening the door, and 2) my conscience having a peace about it.

I meant to mention in my prior post that you might want to add a 3rd point, i.e. whether God is calling you to this position. I am sure you know this already, but even if doors open up, etc it doesn't necessarily mean that is what God wants us to do. It might and it might not.

TK

That's true. I suppose I was concluding that if God was the one opening the door, then it would be His will. But it definitely is possible that multiple doors can be open simultaneously (which is my current situation).. but obviously God cannot be behind each one. Or could He? I guess it's dependent upon one's understanding of the sovereignty of God.

[Jepne]

I was asked to leave the last and only institutional church I ever got involved with. I do not think it was because I did anything wrong, but some things right.

Your post does not sound like you think much of the place. Do you go there already, able to worship there with all your heart? If not, I cannot imagine you could lead others to worship there. Or are they 'hiring' you out of another fellowship - not very scriptural, I would think. I will be interested to follow this post. Jepne

[RICHinCHRIST]

Your post does not sound like you think much of the place. Do you go there already, able to worship there with all your heart? If not, I cannot imagine you could lead others to worship there. Or are they 'hiring' you out of another fellowship - not very scriptural, I would think. I will be interested to follow this post. Jepne

I don't agree with some of the traditional aspects of the denomination and certain doctrines as well, but I still believe many of the people have a sincere desire to follow God. As TK said, there is no perfect church. Perhaps I have too high of expectations, and if so, I wouldn't mind doing ministry there as a service unto God and others. I can still worship with all my heart wherever I go, even if I disagree with certain doctrines or practices.

You do bring up a good point though, I wonder if it could be something I would enjoy doing as a long-term commitment. I suppose it would depend upon what fruit is borne... but that's where the element of faith comes in.. I don't know if committing my forseeable future to such an endeavor would be the most fruitful and obedient use of my time considering the given circumstances. I'm praying for wisdom and I know God will give it to me... I'm just wondering on different people's perspectives and if anything I mentioned resonates with them or if they have any insight I don't see..

I've been attending there since I've moved to my current location in NJ. My parents go there as well. They aren't hiring me from a different fellowship.. although I did lead some of the music ministry in a different church, same denomination, in Boston.

[askmatt]

I think I am the friend to who TK was referring, but you never know with him. One day you're a friend and the next day you're history. Oh well!!! (I'm only kidding, of course. TK is a good friend)

Rich, after reading your initial thoughts, my personal feeling is that you would be making a huge mistake in working for this church, unless you knew without a doubt that God was trying to do something unique. You don't sound like you feel very good about this church and I can tell you from experience that you are not going to change it. It sounds like there would be friction between your convictions and the leaderships right away and that would not be a healthy situation. I had been on staff at a church in the town where I live until March of this year. I had attended there since 2004 and was brought on staff in 2005. I joined the staff because I knew without doubt that God was leading me there, but also it was confirmed by the ministry director at the time. When God first showed me He was calling me to that church, I never said a word to anyone but my wife. A couple months later the ministry director called me in the office and told me that God was showing him that there was a place for me at the church. I am a firm believer in confirmation. First, allow the Holy Spirit to settle this in your heart, and secondly there would most likely be someone confirm that you are being called there. Again, though, if I felt about a church the way that you do about this one, I would NEVER consider going on staff, unless I knew without even a shadow of a doubt that God was calling me.

You might wonder why I left the church. Well, God had me there for a season of a few years and I knew this year that it was time to go. I saw a lot of really good things happen while I was there. A couple of years ago the senior pastor was not asked to return and God used me as a stabilizing factor when the church was going through a really hard time. I loved trying to minister to and encourage the staff and to build up the overall morale of the church body. About a year and a half ago there was some real excitement beginning to happen and I sensed the Holy Spirit really wanting to do some new things. This is where the denominational thing comes into play. Whether other leadership would admit it or not, because of denominational views and traditions, that church WAS NOT going to change and I will leave it at that. The excitement that had been building regressed and no matter how I tried to keep pushing for some things to change, my voice was not heard. Friction began to build between me and some of the other leaders and I started to realize that this was unhealthy for everyone. There were some other factors that were involved and I believe God used those factors to allow me to gracefully resign.

I tell you all that to tell you this. You already are not happy with a lot of things about this church. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE THEM. That is up to the Holy Spirit. Even then, if a church is rich is tradition there is a big chance that will keep them from listening to the Holy Spirit (if indeed there are some things that need to change.) As far as working for a denominational or institutionalized church, I don't think there is ever a complete yes or no. It depends on the church. If the church is one where leadership is proud of their heritage or denomination, but is willing to learn from fruits that come from outside the denominational lines, I think that is wise leadership and a healthy environment. I've been asked to spend some time with a church that is under a denomination and I am considering and praying about that right now. I believe that with them the leading of God and Holy Spirit comes first; denomination second. If it is the other way around, which was the case of the church that I just resigned from, then I would NEVER, EVER consider joining a church staff like that again. I learned the hard way just recently that you can't change a denominational church unless they are willing to change.

Maybe a more simpler way to decide would simply be to ask the question, "Is this church Kingdom minded?" If it is then Lord lead on, because that is what Jesus preached!

On a side not, I am surprised to hear this of a Calvary Chapel. I am a big fan of Chuck Smith and the few Calvary Chapel's that I'm aware of seem to be pretty solid. In fact, one of my daughters attends one and if I lived near her, I would really consider attending there.

I hope this helps, at least in some small way. God bless you and I am committing to pray for you!

In Jesus,
Mark S.

[RICHinCHRIST]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response. I know that there would be little hope in trying to change a church's "vision" for ministry. I am still wrestling in prayer over the topic, and I feel as though God has given me freedom to make a choice. It wouldn't be sin to take the position, and it wouldn't be sin not to take it. I feel at peace just waiting for God to make it more clear. Perhaps I am too critical of the prospect of this position, and it's possible that God could have a wonderful plan in it all. It might be grating upon my own ideas of ministry, but I'm sure God could use that experience for a season to humble me.

By the way, I don't think the church is not solid. The issues with the leadership concern me, but overall I think it is kingdom-centered. The altar call thing just puzzles me sometimes because it seems to be a dishonest representation of the cost of discipleship.

[Jepne]

Reading the other responses, what comes to mind is the inner witness of the Spirit - a thing that makes you feel compelled to do it - you couldn't rest if you did not do it - it would keep after you. It is not a 'head' thing -

With love and prayers for clarity for you. Jepne

[steve7150]

Reading the other responses, what comes to mind is the inner witness of the Spirit - a thing that makes you feel compelled to do it - you couldn't rest if you did not do it - it would keep after you. It is not a 'head' thing -





Although it's not really a head thing , God did gives us brains to think with and perhaps it depends how much control they exert over you , how much compromise you may have to endure or not and whether you can impact the kingdom of God positively from this position without any expectations of the church changing any policies.
After all it's not an irreversable decision.