The law was written on their hearts

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psimmond
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The law was written on their hearts

Post by psimmond » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:09 pm

I had an idea a few days ago and want to run it by y'all. What do you all think of the following scenario? Could it be biblical or do you see serious flaws in this presentation:

God created humans with consciences so they would know right from wrong.

When the first humans disobeyed God, their consciences instantly became aware of moral issues that they were ignorant of prior to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. E.g., They recognized that it was shameful for them to be naked (Genesis 3:7). It was at this point in history that God wrote his law on their hearts. I.e., He made them conscious of his moral law.

After years of disobedience God’s law was all but forgotten, so he wrote his law on tablets of stone for his chosen people.

Pagans, from nations that had all but forgotten the law which was given to their ancient forefathers, still had consciences and basic knowledge of right and wrong. Romans 2:15 says although they did not have the law, they still had the “work of the law” written on their hearts as well as their consciences so on the day of judgment, they would be judged according to how they lived up to the knowledge they had.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 prophesied of a time when God’s law would once again be made known to Israel. He said a new covenant would be made between God and men in which He would write his law on the hearts of his people. At that time he said people would know God but not because they were taught about him by a friend or neighbor. And he also said that at that time their sins would be forgiven.

We now live in this new covenant. Through the word of God who became flesh (and not through another set of stone tablets), we have come to know God in the person of Jesus. We have learned the law of God; it has once again been written on the hearts of men (Acts 17:30). And we have experienced the forgiveness of sins.


Note: From the beginning there has always been a faithful remnant of righteous men and women who lived with the law of God in their hearts (Psalm 40:8, Isaiah 51:7).
Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
~Garry Friesen

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mattrose
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Re: The law was written on their hearts

Post by mattrose » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:27 pm

Reading this... I'm a little unclear if you are distinguishing between CONSCIENCE and the LAW WRITTEN ON HEARTS

Are you saying there are 3 'things'
1. Conscience
2. Law written on heart
3. Law written on stone

or 2 things?
1. Conscience/Law written on heart
2. Law written on stone

dizerner

Re: The law was written on their hearts

Post by dizerner » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:22 am

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psimmond
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Re: The law was written on their hearts

Post by psimmond » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:20 am

mattrose wrote: Reading this... I'm a little unclear if you are distinguishing between CONSCIENCE and the LAW WRITTEN ON HEARTS

Are you saying there are 3 'things'
1. Conscience
2. Law written on heart
3. Law written on stone

or 2 things?
1. Conscience/Law written on heart
2. Law written on stone
Three things. We all have a conscience but our consciences work with the knowledge that we possess. That's why NT writers often talk about mercy covering ignorance (Acts 17:30, 1 Tim 1:13, Heb 9:7).

I've always been taught that "law written on the heart" was a way to describe New covenant believers, but it occurred to me that it could just be a phrase to describe all believers throughout history who have known God's law and lived according to that knowledge. I think numerous pieces fall into place when we view it as the latter.
Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
~Garry Friesen

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Homer
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Re: The law was written on their hearts

Post by Homer » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:57 am

Hi Psimmond,

You wrote:
Pagans, from nations that had all but forgotten the law which was given to their ancient forefathers, still had consciences and basic knowledge of right and wrong. Romans 2:15 says although they did not have the law, they still had the “work of the law” written on their hearts as well as their consciences so on the day of judgment, they would be judged according to how they lived up to the knowledge they had.
Note: From the beginning there has always been a faithful remnant of righteous men and women who lived with the law of God in their hearts (Psalm 40:8, Isaiah 51:7).
I do not think the Psalm 40:8, Isaiah 51:7, refer to pagans. Paul seems to say in Romans 2
that the pagans can be saved by keeping Gods law but he then undoes this idea in the next chapter:


Romans 3:9-10, New American Standard Bible (NASB)

9. What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10. as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one;

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psimmond
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Re: The law was written on their hearts

Post by psimmond » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:15 am

Homer wrote: I do not think the Psalm 40:8, Isaiah 51:7, refer to pagans. Paul seems to say in Romans 2
that the pagans can be saved by keeping Gods law but he then undoes this idea in the next chapter:


Romans 3:9-10, New American Standard Bible (NASB)

9. What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10. as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one;
Homer, I think you are right that those OT references do not refer to pagans; I never meant to imply that. However, I do not think that Romans 3 undoes Romans 2. Romans 3 says all, Jew & Gentile, are "under sin" (under the law of sin) but we are told that where the law is not known, sin is not charged to a person's account (Romans 5:13).

All will be judged, but it seems those who had the law will be judged differently from those who had only the "work of the law." (To those who have been given much, much will be required.) But both groups would have no hope if it were not for God's merciful forgiveness which was/is made possible by Jesus' sacrifice.
Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
~Garry Friesen

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psimmond
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Re: The law was written on their hearts

Post by psimmond » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:36 pm

To unwrap my original post further, I think the tree of the knowledge of good and evil really was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I think it was a magical tree (like the tree of life) and it gave them knowledge they did not previously have, i.e. their nakedness would result in sin if not covered up. There are numerous references in the law to seeing the nakedness of relatives. So they weren’t ashamed of the sight of their bodies, and they weren’t ashamed of their partners seeing their bodies, but the knowledge that their naked bodies could be used in the future in shameful ways caused them to feel shame.

If God’s moral law was known to Adam and Eve after eating the special fruit, they would have passed this information on to the next generation, and they to the next generation, and so on. However, since humans found that God’s law brought conviction, they willfully ignored their consciences and failed to pass it on in its entirety. Each generation receiving less. This is why God wrote the law on stone tablets and had Moses record the law for the Hebrews after bringing them out of Egypt.

So ever since the garden of Eden, a faithful remnant has known and practiced God's law. God's law was "within their hearts"/"written on their hearts."

Around 600 years before Christ, Jeremiah prophesied of a time when God’s law would not just be known but would be obeyed. Today, just as in the past, those who know God's moral law and live with a clear conscience in regards to this knowledge have the law written on their hearts.

In the OT Adam & Eve received the law after eating the forbidden fruit; about 2500 years later, the Hebrew people received the law again through the prophet Moses; but in the new--and superior--covenant, we have received the law from God in the flesh. And we have not only received the law but forgiveness of sins as well!
Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
~Garry Friesen

dizerner

Re: The law was written on their hearts

Post by dizerner » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:36 pm

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psimmond
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Re: The law was written on their hearts

Post by psimmond » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:05 pm

dizerner wrote:For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am made out of flesh, sold into sin's power.
This was Paul's answer in Romans 7 to the question, Did the law cause my death?

Exactly why did you put that in this thread?
Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
~Garry Friesen

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robbyyoung
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Re: The law was written on their hearts

Post by robbyyoung » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:03 am

Hello All,

I wanted to revisit this thread to get some biblically based factual answers, instead of speculations, concerning the following:
If humans outside of the relational knowledge and experience of God (Israelites, Jews & Christians) are judged by inherited moral laws of God, do they not have eternal life too?
-Robby
People have lived and died without ever hearing about the God of the bible - There have been some verses applied in this thread to addresss this issue. So what does it mean to have this law written on the heart? Do these people acknowledge God in some fashion, yet still have a healthy respect and therefore lives righteously? What's the requirement?

Being Christian we can ascertain our answers through our knowledge of knowing the God of the bible, but what about those who do not?

Our God is extremely merciful and if I can give a quasi comparison to the above questions and inquiry, as an initial answer, it would be the following:

Matthew 20:1-16 — Workers in the Vineyard
“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard. About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ So they went. He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’ ‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered. He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’ When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’ The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. ‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’ But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’ “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

Your thoughts?
Last edited by robbyyoung on Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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